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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#91
> “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which we put them in,” Gottlieb added.

Nope. That line was crossed a long time ago. I can't imagine people suddenly regaining trust in pharma companies and health care agencies now because they backed off at this point.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.

Maybe we should outlaw tobacco, limit people's sugar intake via daily glucose testing, and ban alcohol while we're at it?

I think people should be able to choose their vices. Suicide (slow or fast) is by it self not immoral to me.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#93
post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

> But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people

I'm not sure how you're convinced it's only the unmasked or unvaccinated people that are responsible for the spread of the virus at this point. In many countries they are not allowed to go anywhere.

How is the virus crossing oceans so quickly if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#94
post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans

It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1]

Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the nex…

Who is better situated to respond to a pandemic than the state? What is the alternative?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

True, I imagine that would be quite frightening and have a lot of data to support a number of initiatives that the population would vehemently disagree with.

Even in grade school, I remembered dreading when they would have us run a mile as fast as we could and record the times.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be new variants.

Irrelevant. If the new variants keep killing people in huge numbers, we'll keep seeing restrictions (assuming our governments are doing their jobs). If this happens for the next 100 years, we'll have to keep living with restrictions for the next 100 years; horrible as it is, it's better than the alternatives.

> It's better than the alternatives.

That's an opinion. You will find people who would rather face the chance of becoming sick than live under quasi-lockdown for their entire lives.

We are all dead in the end.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

Obesity is a complicated disease that manifests through a variety of biological, behavioral, and environmental factors. These factors differ widely between individuals. I think there are mandates that could help make the disease less prevalent, but it is very much ingrained in our daily life, so I'm cynical as to the efficacy of such measures. It's very difficult to mandate behavioral (look at how many people don't even want to put a mask on) or environmental (think what foods are available in a region based on scarcity, culture etc - and yes this is a real factor in obesity) changes. A concise video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZC4rfSMq8c

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#99
post #84
post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

What’s your perspective on small kids too young to be vaccinated?

zero risk of death from covid

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#100

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on.

It's almost like there's a narrative here.

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