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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#81

Post by cies »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #28
cies wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of 8 billion that's not very impressive. Millions die in years without "pandemic". (quoted because in the past that mend >1% infection-deaths, this was <1%, yet still a pandemic).

Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.

I dont have a problem with a natural cause "shaking out some dead branches". That's how things go. Someone else notes tobacco. And that's it, if we are so serious about extending human life, why not focus on lifestyle diseases? And even with that focus I think people should be able to choose their own vices (as long as it does not harm others).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#82

Post by xyzzy123 »

falcolas wrote: post #40
tacitusarc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’re seeing mutations because of incubators who weren’t vaccinated. I’ve been tracking this closely and all research thus far appears to indicate that statement is inaccurate.

Links? Mutations occur in infected hosts, which vaccines were limiting. Even with Omicron, a report that hit HN a day or two ago indicated a 5x difference in infection rates created by vaccines.

I think parent post is implying that the situation with Omicron is much more complicated.

Alpha, Delta variants, sure, we can see them evolving pretty much site by site to become the things that they are. There are enough uploaded sequences you can basically watch it happening.

I suppose you can blame the unvaxxed for increasing the probability of such variants.

But Omicron turns up with a freakishly weird number of synonymous vs non-synonymous mutations in the spike, lots of adaptions for immune evasion and... it's rooted in the phylogenetic tree back in 2020? So it just evolved in secret for 18 months, becoming incredibly transmissible while managing not to infect a single person who got sequenced? Bear in mind that is conservatively 100 generations, usually. It's super weird. Whatever process produced Omicron, it was radically different than regular infection and transmission.

This is not something we could reasonably have expected from say, increased infections due to some people not being vaccinated.

In fact all the variants from "regular" transmission over the course of this pandemic - the result of hundreds of millions of infections - are being out-competed by this bolt from the blue.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#83

Post by tazjin »

sudosysgen wrote: post #55
fileeditview wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. Consider no one was vaccinated and 1% of humans would need medication because of a "serious" case. Then the medicine would need to be 100x more expensive than the vaccine considering the alternative is everyone was vaccinated. Now consider many people got 3 or even 4 shots. It's 300x-400x now. Also you can give the medicine to already vaccinated people that also have serious cases. So you still can sell…

The medicine is not indicated to be given to serious cases. It is indicated for use as soon as possible, when you have your first symptom. Right now this isn't the case because there aren't enough to go around, but this is the premise of the trials, so this is how they will be sold. People also get COVID more than once.

The vast majority of people isn't going to get a specific, probably expensive medicine for what amounts to a cold for most people. I certainly won't. If anything they'll take some aspirin/paracetamol and rock on.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#84

Post by xattt »

Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

What’s your perspective on small kids too young to be vaccinated?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#85

Post by rhizome31 »

peter422 wrote: post #69
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

It would be more democratic if the people were making the decision themselves by directly voting the laws. With the elective system we delegate decision making to people we choose from a very limited pool of candidates which aren't selected democratically. In a way "elect democratically" is a bit of an oxymoron.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#86

Post by Izkata »

Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

> and I am done caring about this class of people.

And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!"

I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#87

Post by peter422 »

yucky wrote: post #46
zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away.

Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#88

Post by somedude895 »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #79
peter422 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the nex…

Also, a lot of government employees' jobs now depend on keeping these systems in place in one form or another...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#89

Post by mizzack »

bhouston wrote: post #6

Why is this comment being downvoted? What part isn't true? This statement seems very specific to the US cultural context: “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which we put them in,” Gottlieb added. In Canada, there have been experiments with slowly increasing the number of areas where you are required to…

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#90

Post by SkyPuncher »

peter422 wrote: post #69
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

I thought this last spring. Then, way too many people decided to refused to get vaccinated.
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