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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#51

Post by dekhn »

yucky wrote: post #46
zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

I await the results, ten years int he future, where we integrate a wide range of data in less ambiguous ways to determine what the actual effects of vaccination, post-infection resistance, masking, etc were, and understand the underlying causes. I do agree that interventions (except for full shutdown like china) don't seem to have a huge variation in results.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#52

Post by yucky »

dekhn wrote: post #51
yucky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

I await the results, ten years int he future, where we integrate a wide range of data in less ambiguous ways to determine what the actual effects of vaccination, post-infection resistance, masking, etc were, and understand the underlying causes. I do agree that interventions (except for full shutdown like china) don't seem to have a huge variation in results.

Well we already know there has been a huge increase in the deaths of black children [1]

[1] https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2022/01/25/chi...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#53

Post by nicoburns »

walterbell wrote: post #41
nicoburns wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't stop the spread, but it slows it and reduces the severity of the disease. Both of which help our health services to cope. You might care because you want healthcare to be available for yourself or your loved ones should they need it.

> slows it Not necessarily. Because vaccines suppress symptoms, people who would otherwise isolate in the presence of symptoms could be unaware they are infected and transmitting to others.

My understanding is that people with suppressed symptoms are also less likely to transmit it. This makes sense given that we know coughing and sneezing is a primary transmission vector. So if you're not coughing and sneezing you're much less likely to transmit it. Of course you still can transmit it just by breathing, but it's just less likely.

I would also add that I'm speaking in the context of the UK. Here we have freely and widely available lateral flow tests (you can order packs of tests online or pick them up from local chemists, and there is no charge in either case), and people are encouraged to test regularly, especially if attending a social event and even if you have no symptoms. And a lot of people are required to test regularly as part of their jobs, or in order to attend to school. In this context, it's quite likely that asymptomatic cases get picked up anyway.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#54

Post by dang »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #27
zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

Quoted post unavailable.

Please don't cross into the flamewar style, no matter how strongly you (and others) feel on a topic. We're trying to avoid that here, and need everyone to pitch in.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#55

Post by sudosysgen »

fileeditview wrote: post #42
sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

I doubt that. Consider no one was vaccinated and 1% of humans would need medication because of a "serious" case. Then the medicine would need to be 100x more expensive than the vaccine considering the alternative is everyone was vaccinated. Now consider many people got 3 or even 4 shots. It's 300x-400x now. Also you can give the medicine to already vaccinated people that also have serious cases. So you still can sell…

The medicine is not indicated to be given to serious cases. It is indicated for use as soon as possible, when you have your first symptom.

Right now this isn't the case because there aren't enough to go around, but this is the premise of the trials, so this is how they will be sold.

People also get COVID more than once.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#56

Post by peteradio »

YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote: post #34
cies wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science seems to be a rather stretchable concept lately. What about "unconstitutional"? No people want to know your medical status, that used to be protected privacy. Also how can we block people from going outside or gathering? Maybe for 10% deaths that's a reasonable thing to ask, but for <1% this is waaaay out of proportion for my taste.

Unconstitutional seems to be a rather stretchable concept lately. Here are all the vaccine mandates in the US today: https://www.immunize.org/laws/

Those are states laws. Generally when someone says Unconstitutional without a state qualification they mean Federal Government.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#57

Post by encryptluks2 »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

> The faster they get it, the faster we can be as done with COVID as we are ever going to be.

This reminds me of the arguments that unvaccinated were the cause of COVID-19 and were endangering those who are vaccinated. Vaccinated people get and spread COVID still. In fact, recent studies show natural immunity or vaxxed plus COVID causes much more antibodies than simply getting vaccinated, especially with a vaccine that targets an old mutation that has proven much less effective against Omicron and the likes. The vaccinated people will prob continue to get vaccinated a few times a year until they get a less dangerous variant.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#58

Post by TimedToasts »

cyberge99 wrote: post #14
tootie wrote: post #8

I think this is kind of a big "duh" statement. Mandates were issued in the face or surging numbers and we now have waning numbers. I'm very hesitant to declare victory too soon but the day is seemingly coming soon. Of course, we'll have to reverse course yet again if there's a new wave which very well might happen. The next stage should shipping billions of doses to the poor nations that haven't gotten any yet.

The B.A2 variant has emerged and is spreading. I’m not sure we’re rounding the corner just yet.

There will always be new variants.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#59

Post by Hamuko »

sudosysgen wrote: post #55
fileeditview wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. Consider no one was vaccinated and 1% of humans would need medication because of a "serious" case. Then the medicine would need to be 100x more expensive than the vaccine considering the alternative is everyone was vaccinated. Now consider many people got 3 or even 4 shots. It's 300x-400x now. Also you can give the medicine to already vaccinated people that also have serious cases. So you still can sell…

The medicine is not indicated to be given to serious cases. It is indicated for use as soon as possible, when you have your first symptom. Right now this isn't the case because there aren't enough to go around, but this is the premise of the trials, so this is how they will be sold. People also get COVID more than once.

So basically they're expecting everyone to have a pack in their medicine cabinet, next to the aspirin and bandages?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#60

Post by sudosysgen »

Hamuko wrote: post #59
sudosysgen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medicine is not indicated to be given to serious cases. It is indicated for use as soon as possible, when you have your first symptom. Right now this isn't the case because there aren't enough to go around, but this is the premise of the trials, so this is how they will be sold. People also get COVID more than once.

So basically they're expecting everyone to have a pack in their medicine cabinet, next to the aspirin and bandages?

Well, given they're selling it for thousands of dollars, I think not.
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