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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#371

Post by nebula8804 »

taylortrusty wrote: post #355
nebula8804 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A smaller but still important metric....the possibility of turning it permanently blue? (one can hope)

I suspect part of the appeal is it's not permanently blue.

People always complain about the downsides of all these blue areas but at the end of the day there is still a massive population that continue to live there. For example: Exodus from California is mainly limited to people making less than 100k a year. People making more than that actually increased their population in California. So this is mainly a rich vs poor issue. I'm excited at the prospect of transforming some of the rural states into a mindset of progressivism. It will help prevent some of the gridlock that is holding back the country from trying big bold ideas.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#372

Post by 55873445216111 »

nebula8804 wrote: post #328
55873445216111 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon fabs do not make server boards. They just produce the silicon wafer i.e. "die" of a semiconductor device. Most die must be assembled into a package before they can be used. The die packaging aka "backend" is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Most backend is in Taiwan or Malaysia or China. Even after the die is packaged, it needs to be mounted on a complete PCB with all the other components. Inte…

I know there are PCB manufacturers somewhere in the US. I don't know about packaging. Do you know which firms do packaging of the dies and why can't the US do it(It can't just be cost)? How hard can it be really? Its essentially plastic , maybe some metal, and gold isn't it? Maybe an argument could be made to locate at least one source of manufacturing for all these steps in a local area. But thats just the programme…

It's all about cost. The assembly and test is the "low tech" part of semiconductor manufacturing and can be done well in Asia by workforces that are not as highly educated as those you need to run a fab. US and western economies have always focused on doing the highest value add portions of manufacturing domestically (where the highly educated workforce is key) while outsourcing the lower value add (lower margin) portions of the supply chain.

Consumers demand low cost. Many times they just buy the cheaper widget, because most people are not even capable of distinguishing the differences in performance or quality between two different widgets. But the difference in price is obvious to everyone and so most people just use that. The pressure of reducing every single penny out of the cost or semiconductors is enormous.

Top 10 OSAT (outsourced assembly and test) companies: https://evertiq.com/news/51003

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#373

Post by [deleted] »

tmp538394722 wrote: post #286
mNovak wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, Ohio was supposedly high on the Soviet nuke target list, because of Wright Patterson AFB, which houses the Air Force Research Lab (and aliens). I have an old Soviet invasion map of central Ohio, marking all potential airfields etc.

The small town I grew up in also had a specific Soviet doomsday theory. Which in hindsight, doesn’t feel very plausible. In the wake of the George Floyd protests family talked about their concern that out of state “Antifa looters” were spotted driving down the interstate headed right for them. I don’t mean to call you a liar, Im sure there indeed are some obscure targets, and your home might be one. I do think it’s a…

[deleted]

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#374

Post by Manuel_D »

umvi wrote: post #310
gaoshan wrote: post #122

This is actually a brilliant location for them. One of those places that has much more going for it than people not from the region would realize. International airport, large rail depot, extremely low cost of living and a city/region that has more good restaurants and activities than might be expected. Ohio State University is in the city and is a huge school that is rapidly growing in academic standing. Road transi…

> extremely low cost of living and a city/region that has more good restaurants and activities than might be expected That's what people said about Salt Lake City and Boise... until about 5 years ago. Cost of living has skyrocketed since 2017, housing alone has doubled in price. It doesn't take long for a low cost of living region to become high cost of living.

Cost of living is relative. San Francisco is about 50% more expensive than Seattle. Which in turn is about 70% higher than SLC, judging by a quick scan of apartment rents.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#375

Post by sangnoir »

KerrAvon wrote: post #368
decremental wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name exactly one personal liberty afforded to women in California that is not afforded to women in Ohio.

You must not be aware of the ongoing threats to abortion in Ohio? https://www.abortionislegalinohio.com/ You can say that it's not technically illegal now, but it's unquestionably under assault in a way that it's not and won't ever be in California.

I was going to say the same as you did: SCOTUS may very well make the legality of abortion a state-controlled issue, so that's definitely at risk in Ohio.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#376

Post by rxhernandez »

outside1234 wrote: post #298
rxhernandez wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there's more great ones in California but I can count 14 off the top of my head; I think all of them are nearly within 300 miles of LA too. 1. Caltech 2. Stanford 3. Cal 4. UCLA 5. Harvey Mudd 6. USC 7. UCSD 8. UCD 9. UCSB 10. CPSLO 11. UCI 12. CPP 13. UCSC 14. UCR

Caltech, Stanford, Cal, and Harvey Mudd are on the same tier with Purdue, Michigan, Illinois, CM. The other ones are good schools, but in a distinctly second tier to that group.

You think UCLA, USC, and UCSD are second tier? Last I checked, UCSD is #9 for engineering in the nation, which is above UIUC at #10. USC is #12 and UCLA is #16 relative to Columbia at #15, John Hopkins at #17, Harvard at #21, Princeton at #22, and UW at #22.

What on earth do you mean by second tier?

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#377

Post by smaddox »

quocanh wrote: post #285
NationalPark wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do chip plants employ many engineers? Seems like they would mainly need IT and facilities staff.

From what I understand, a chip plant's workers have PhDs because when problems arise on the line, they require a lot of knowledge to fix.

The R&D fab(s) definitely have a high number of PhDs. I don't know about the production fabs. PhDs will definitely visit when starting up a new fab or process or when issues need to be addressed.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#378

Post by brewdad »

mNovak wrote: post #255
mrfusion wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low geopolitical risk is probably one of the best factors.

Fun fact, Ohio was supposedly high on the Soviet nuke target list, because of Wright Patterson AFB, which houses the Air Force Research Lab (and aliens). I have an old Soviet invasion map of central Ohio, marking all potential airfields etc.

When I was growing up the rumor was that both sides had enough nukes to destroy the entire earth 10x over. I have no idea whether that is even close to true but at that point every city is a target because, why not?

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#379

Post by sfotm »

rybosome wrote: post #273
sfotm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Seattle before moving back.

Columbus to Seattle was my journey as well, but I have no intention of going back. What brought you back to Ohio?

A few things, some that are pretty general, and some that are pretty specific to my situation.

1. Family in general plays a large role.

2. I'm able to make stronger financial moves. Property is appreciating relatively quickly in the Columbus area, and purchase-cost-to-rent ratios are better here, from the investor PoV.

3. Full remote means that I'm still able to visit Seattle for the larger mountaineering trips, etc. that I like to take part in while being based out of a lower-CoL area. After several years, I was going to have to start taking flights to new destinations, anyway.

4. Opportunity to give back to the communities that gave me my start.

And some other factors come in, too. Covid definitely reduced my perceived benefit of living in Seattle. Nothing's forever though. It's a two-way door.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#380

Post by tracker1 »

gaoshan wrote: post #122

This is actually a brilliant location for them. One of those places that has much more going for it than people not from the region would realize. International airport, large rail depot, extremely low cost of living and a city/region that has more good restaurants and activities than might be expected. Ohio State University is in the city and is a huge school that is rapidly growing in academic standing. Road transi…

I think it's more about diversifying locations for labor pooling... Phoenix is growing and now going to have fabs for Intel, Samsung and TSMC. I think it's more about hedging or spreading out the labor pool a bit more and less competition.

As for location, in terms of shipping, they're probably about on par to each other. Not sure how stable it is regarding weather conditions, or natural disaster risk in Ohio vs Arizona though.

In either case, it's good to see some uptick in distributed manufacturing. Concentrating most high technology infrastructure into a relatively small region has proven a disaster when problems inevitably happen.

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