Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#401

Post by beerandt » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

milesvp wrote: post #342

beerandt wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that "the customer is always right" attitude has actuality just become a policy of non-confrontation... >I want the meat of sandwich A, the bread off sandwich B, the condiments from an item on the Sunday Brunch menu If they think bread +meat +condiment is a highly demanding, needy sandwich order, then perhaps waiting tables isn't for them. It at least suggests why they might find their tip-based compens…

You may not know this, but custom orders slow down service sometimes by an order of magnitude. I worked at a takeout teriyaki joint in college, and it was as fast a food as you could find. There were 5 menu items, and I could really get in a rhythm dishing rice and chicken and coleslaw. But as soon as anyone asked for something non-standard, then suddenly muscle memory was gone, and I actually had to think about what…

I'm not arguing for or against allowing special orders. But that's on the manager, not the customer.

The server having an issue with it (when the manager doesn't) is a problem, and blaming customers for making requests is a problem, especially if policy is to allow them.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#402

Post by bena » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

peteradio wrote: post #389

bena wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your contrived hypothetical scenario is not proof of your conjecture. Because there are plenty of places that don't work with tips that do fine. Hell, some of our least expensive options operate in a tip-free environment. And no restaurant where tipping is expected is selling for the same price as fast food places in the first place. So it's not the scenario where you're looking at two options that seem equally price…

If you look into the financializations of any Restaurant you won't necessarily be able to generalize to all Restaurants. McDonald's empire is built on real estate not burgers anymore for instance. Anyway I was speaking specifically on my own regions circumstances, we don't have fastfood within a 1hr round-trip. That 1hr adds up to a few bucks gas and time I don't have. There is no 2 options.

Extrapolating from singular circumstances is worse than generalizing from the most common.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#403

Post by bradleyjg » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #334

bradleyjg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not twice as much work to sell a $2 million house as a $1 million house. Why does it cost twice as much in real estate agent fees?

Your question falsely assumes that a real estate agent's value is measured in a lumps of labor. If that were the case, we'd see lawyers being payed the same amount of money for reading the same book of law. The real estate fees are a negotiated cost in lieu of hourly payment.

If it were in lieu of an hourly payment it would vary from agent to agent (depending on expertise) rather than house to house (depending on price). This is how lawyers work. Some are $200 an hour and some are $500 an hour.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#404

Post by exhilaration » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

db65edfc7996 wrote: post #328

bluGill wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good ones love the tip system. They get the most tips, and also tend to be the types of people recruited to the higher prices restaurants where higher tips are normal. They draw in repeat customers for their great service. I used to know a waitress who was making just as much as her engineer husband. She looked good for 55, but 55 will never look good enough to draw in many high tips based on looks. (good lucks i…

I am most curious what percentage of the population dynamically adjusts their tip in any relation to the service. It has just become an additional tax. I give a standard 20%, more if it rounds to a nice whole dollar amount. Even if I had bad service, I am still giving 20%. That's the social contract I am stuck with fulfilling.

Seconding this, unless the server kicks me in the groin they're getting 20%. That's the only way they're getting a livable wage and I'm sure not going to be the one to rob them of it.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#405

Post by xibalba » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:29 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #205

smarx007 wrote: post #195

I see that many are fixed on tips, but I found it quite shocking to read about long queues of people on the Christmas day and people quitting on the Christmas Eve. In many European cities, the streets are completely empty and almost all shops (maybe a local supermarket would open from 10:00 till 14:00 on a Christmas day after being closed for the Eve) are closed both on the Christmas Eve and the Christmas day.

That is probably because he was working at a movie theater. Seeing a movie at a theater on christmas is a bit of a tradition for a lot of people here, for some reason. It's less extreme than in europe but in the US also most businesses will be closed or have reduced hours on those two days, and would expect much less business even if open. Movie theaters are an exception.

This is a tradition for many across the United States. I have lived in 4 major metros and the theaters are always packed (excepting 2020) on Christmas day. Anecdotally, many of my friends tell me they have family traditions of opening presents, having a family breakfast, and then catching a midday matinee. Box office receipts show this trend [1]. Hollywood tends to drop some of their biggest films in the late holiday season, possibly to capitalize on this trend, though there is probably some kind of reflexive dynamic to the pattern.

Part of me suspects that attending church on Christmas eve/day, once a widely practiced tradition in the U.S. has been replaced by the movies as Americans seek to fill some kind of communal void.

[1] https://www.boxofficemojo.com/holiday/christmas_day/2021/

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#406

Post by dlp211 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:35 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #398

dlp211 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, and nearly everyone in my neighborhood let our kids out. I see kids walking up and down my street, by themselves and with their friends every day. Let your kids go out, they and you will be fine.

Where is this? Here in the bay area, I only know 1-2 areas that are like that, and even then you'll only see teenagers. Might end up moving if one is local! I'm in the lower peninsula area.

I live in Washington, Puget Sound Area. Kids out all the time, plus no income taxes, reasonable property taxes, and a great, though limited tech scene.

The PNW isn't for everyone, but we know how to get outdoors at all ages :).

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

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Post by sumtechguy » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:36 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #372

sumtechguy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is highly dependent on the type of restaurant you work at. Someone I know would make 100-250 a night a one place. Moves to another one, she was maybe getting maybe 20 total a night. Moves to another one 80-150...

I worked at a popular pizza chain for high school and got maybe $10 in tips my entire time there . My pregnant coworker meanwhile averaged an extra $50 or more a night. Given that I was paid minimum wage at the time ($4.25 IIRC), that extra $50 in tips was a significant boost to her income. Now on one hand I think it's fair that a pregnant woman needs more money than a high school kid who's saving up for extra toys (…

Very much so. It is situation dependent and in your case time dependent. 4.25 was nearly 25+ years ago at this point. Tips have unfortunately morphed into this 'this is how I get paid', instead of 'I like you, here is some extra'. We went from a system that was semi fair to one of capriciousness and pettiness. I once watched a dude dump out of a tip because the server didnt bring him a straw.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

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Post by mindslight » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:42 PM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #396

mindslight wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to banking is indeed a problem, but pragmatically there is always cash or a non-fraudulent [0] check drawn on a local bank. And for tips specifically, they can just be bundled with the rest of the pay rather than creating a second problem. [0] for example checks drawn on Bank of America accounts are generally fraudulent, as BoA refuses to pay the specified amount when presented for payment at a branch. They're…

Why single out Bank of America? Nearly every single (big) bank will refuse to cash a check for non-customers. The days of taking a signed check to a local branch for cashing have been over for decades. I'd love to find out why this changed, I suspect it's because they can go after their own customers if a check turns out to be fraudulent but not some guy walking off the street.

It seems like another illegal scam that will rake in a decade of ill gotten gains, then there will be a class action slap on the wrist and a promise not to do it again, while they move on to the next decade's scams. The entire nature of a check is that it is a promise that a third party custodian will pay a specific amount, and the custodian then demanding to take a cut directly invalidates that. I suspect it's monkey-see-monkey-do, unless there is some behind the scenes rule change (Check 21?) that would seem to condone such nonsense.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#409

Post by 0xffff2 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #251

ashtonkem wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the issue with tipping culture is that there's a grey area between the "obviously tipped" and "obviously not tipped" roles. This grey area creates space for companies to pay tipped wages, but customers to also not tip because they didn't think about it.

In most states (not sure if it's a federal law), tip-earners are guaranteed to be "topped up" or "made whole" if their tips don't bring them to the normal minimum wage. That minimum is still too low to be livable in many areas, Texas included, but that's a separate, albeit related, problem.

I only ever worked a tipped job in California, where there is no separate tipped minimum, but it's a very common refrain from service industry workers commenting online that this "top up" happens far less often than you would think.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#410

Post by Dracophoenix » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #385

Dracophoenix wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops sellers from raising prices to the point that any meaningful gain in UBI is effectively zero?

To be truly effective, UBI needs to be directly linked to the basic costs of living, like food and rent. If those go up, so should UBI. Or as long as there is no UBI, minimum wage should follow those costs.

Either if those scenarios just create an inflationary spiral.