No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#451

Post by flippyhead » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #205

flippyhead wrote: post #82

I've heard this more lately and can't square it with what I had understood about those super long-lived cultures; like in Italy or Japan, where supposedly they drink moderate amounts of alcohol approximately daily.

There are so many factors that effect health its really hard to isolate one. I think moderation is key to preventing one of these things from having an undue large effect. grandmother (Irish/English) drank and smoked a lot, she lived to her mid-nineties. She had a relatively stress free existence though. But she's one person and without an identical twin control, its hard to tell how much better she might have been h…

But that's why I thought these studies of long-lived _cultrures_ were significant. These things, including moderate alcohol consumption, which are common to multiple very different large groups that live longer than average.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#452

Post by railsgirls112 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

allturtles wrote: post #389

kstrauser wrote: post #159

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

Setting aside tradition/ritual, which I don't think should count for nothing, I can think of many objective metrics on which alcohol is superior: - Flavor - Fills the stomach (can be a disadvantage too, but is advantageous in some situations, e.g. while waiting for dinner to be served at a party) - Doesn't consume itself (i.e you can set down a drink and come back to it 30 minutes later) - Easy to consume a small amo…

>- Flavor

This is obviously not an objective metric of superiority.

>- Fills the stomach (can be a disadvantage too, but is advantageous in some situations, e.g. while waiting for dinner to be served at a party)

Also subjective, as you realize its inconveniences and give one positive use case. In my experience this bloat is largely uncomfortable and inconvenient.

>- Doesn't consume itself (i.e you can set down a drink and come back to it 30 minutes later)

This is only true if you leave something lit that is burning, something I doubt most would do on purpose

>- Easy to consume a small amount without substantially altering your mental state.

Sister comment addresses this well

>- No fire/burn risk

Valid concern, but there are many common ways to consume weed that don't carry that risk

>- Doesn't generate smoke/odor, which is unpleasant for other people and gets in your clothes/furniture

Same as above

Ironically I think the traditions and rituals around alcohol is the best thing it has going for it, on most "objective" measures weed is regarded superior.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#453

Post by 1970-01-01 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #432

1970-01-01 wrote: post #398

Counter-point: Alcohol was key in the creation of the United States. "In the drink, a dream; and in the dream, a spark."[1] "...the Founding Fathers despised each other. Like, these bros couldn’t stand the sight of one another and it’s a goddamn miracle our country ever came to be, that’s how much they hated one another."[2] In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constit…

How is that a counter to to claims about its health effects? They're not saying alcohol has no positives and it's for terrible people, just that it has negative effects on health.

I've taken liberty on the word "heart" to mean the overall character of a person. I.e. alcohol is beneficial in many other ways, and it must not be dismissed as "just a bad drug" in discussions.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#454

Post by thebean11 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

zelphirkalt wrote: post #410

thebean11 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that relevant? If you want change it to "no amount of driving to the bowling alley is safe".

I have seen many people use such comparisions, which do not match up, to justify unhealthy behavior for themselves, shutting themselves out from proper reasoning. That is how it is relevant. I am saying: Do not fool yourself using such arguments. Also the comparison you now brought up is again not a good argument: It doesn't matter, whether there are unnecessary rides. The argument is, that there are mandatory ones f…

Sure there are mandatory rides, but the argument doesn't hinge on those..you can consider only nonessential rides, and drinking. Both are totally optional, what is your issue with that comparison?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#455

Post by globular-toast » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

N1H1L wrote: post #391

penjelly wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like alcohol consumption isn't taken as seriously since its been legalized alcohol was being consumed before first evidence of laws in human society. Ancient mesopotamians drank a lot of beer because it was more resistant to bacteria then other beverages. Unless you meant legalized after prohibition?

We have been consuming alcohol long before we even became Homo - even 10 million years back we were seeking out rotting fruits on the forest floor.

Some birds and many insects specifically seek out fermented fruits and ears of corn etc. Not sure if it's known why.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#456

Post by the_only_law » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #395

the_only_law wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when a drug addict looking his next fix attacks someone? You arrest and charge them for attacking someone?

But if the person they attacked dies, arresting the attacker after the fact doesn't bring them back to life. Do you also think DUI should be legal until you get in a crash?

> Do you also think DUI should be legal until you get in a crash?

No clearly we should charge anyone found in possession of alcohol with a felony to lower the possibility.

Drinking is not a crime, being drunk alone is not a crime, driving is not a crime. Being drunk, while driving is. On the other hand, assault is a crime regardless.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#457

Post by slackfan » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

heyitsguay wrote: post #62

tasha0663 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advocacy tips at the end of the brief are shockingly anti-fun.

These ones? > Cost-effective interventions to reduce alcohol consumption include strengthening restrictions on alcohol availability, enforcing bans on alcohol advertising, and facilitating access to screening and treatment. "Restrictions on alcohol availability" could be anti-fun if implemented in the extreme (hopefully we've learned prohibition doesn't work), the other two are pretty standard.

>hopefully we've learned prohibition doesn't work

As a world, we absolutely have not. And any insane policy will be backed up by very reasonable scientific evidence.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#458

Post by oicu812 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

"No amount of alcohol is safe, however it's the dose that makes the poison." [1]

"for every 100,000 people who consume one drink per day, 918 will have an alcohol-related problem per year. But if the same 100,000 people drank nothing at all, 914 would still have one of those same problems. That’s only 4 more people per year (per 100,000) who will have a problem that’s attributable to alcohol—that’s tiny. But it’s also not zero." [2]

[1] https://peterattiamd.com/qualy-1-what-are-peters-thoughts-on...

[2] https://www.popsci.com/moderate-drinking-benefits-risks/#pag...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#459

Post by oceanplexian » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #172

sokoloff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

That is faulty logic. We hypothesize that mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 are safe but do not know the long term effects. Why should we exercise conservatism for some drugs but not for vaccines? To be clear, I'm just using that as an example of logical inconsistency and I recommend that everyone eligible protect themselves by getting vaccinated. I also think that all recreational drugs should be legalized (or at least dec…

Really the argument should be about strengthening informed consent. "Safety" is not objective; something that one individual would consider safe might not be safe for another. For example I have friends that like to go sky-diving. For them it's "safe". For me, it's not. Drugs should require a waiver similar to signing up for a credit card. e.g.,

"This drug completed a 12 month Phase 2 clinical trial with 65,917 participants in which the drug demonstrated efficacy of Y against symptomatic disease. 1.5% of participants experienced adverse effects which included runny nose. 0.01% of participants experienced a fatal allergic reaction. These drugs are still undergoing trials and our understanding of safety and efficacy can change in the future.

[ ] Check to indicate you understand and consent"

I think this should be the standard for vaccines, drugs like marijuana and alcohol and cigarettes. Do it at the point-of-sale. For things that are particularly dangerous, maybe require an interview with a physician to make sure the person is of sound mind and capable of consenting. I believe that if you treat people like adults they will naturally make the best decisions for themselves. When you treat people like children, they'll act like children.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#460

Post by lancesells » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #289

lancesells wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not refuting and generally agree with your sentiment here in harm reduction but I tried to see the collateral damage of drug raids vs drugs. In the US the CDC reported 100,000 overdoses from drugs in the 12 months preceding April 2021[1]. I can't find how many people die from drug raids specifically but this Al-Jazeera article shows 1,068 people being killed by the police a year after George Floyd died[2]. And fo…

Now count how many people are sitting in jail for marijuana possession and the impact that arrest has over the course of their lives.

Oh absolutely. Something like marijuana should not have ever been a crime. It's absurd and horrifying to think of people spending their lives behind bars for that and many other drug offenses.