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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#341
post #22

Interesting how there's a major shift in the knowledge about risks of things like sugar, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. And it usually turns out there was an industry group involved in sort of a coverup. The lesson here is to take any health claims or dismissal or risks with a grain of salt when there's a big industry behind it.

One of my favorite examples of this is how coconut oil is advertised all over youtube by thousands of influencers as a superfood that must be a part of a healthy diet. (Especially since it's hardly an oil in my opinion -- it's partially solid at room temperature) There's absolutely no reliable evidence that coconut oil has any beneficial effects on the human body, and I really don't see why anybody would believe that…

I suspect that high fats are fine and high carbs are fine, but having both high fats + high carbs leads to health problems. Fat heavy leads to keto metabolic state, heavy carbs lead to the other metabolic state. Having both at the same time is the issue, my opinion.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun. Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such s…

I don’t understand your comparison with a fire. Your claim that moderate alcohol consumption makes things more fun is part of the point of my post. Is this actually true, or just a rationalization of people who already drink? No judgement for those who do drink, by the way.

It's true.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#343

I feel like alcohol consumption isn't taken as seriously since its been legalized, but its incredibly destructive. The only thing I've really seen get talked about is driving while drinking. This hits very close to home to me because I am currently taking care of our kids while my wife had to fly across the USA to help with her Uncle's funeral. He was a high functioning alcoholic for many years until he joined AA and…

> I feel like alcohol consumption isn't taken as seriously since its been legalized

alcohol was being consumed before first evidence of laws in human society. Ancient mesopotamians drank a lot of beer because it was more resistant to bacteria then other beverages.

Unless you meant legalized after prohibition?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency in legal matters seems like a good and necessary thing for ensuring fairness. What is the basis for Emerson’s quote to apply here?

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

Legalization brings production and sale of recreational drugs under regulation. That will not stop all harms, but those harms are then more likely to be known. Addiction treatment is more accessible when drug use is not criminalized.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#345

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

Sounds like you already realize the error of your reasoning. Don't be so set in your ways. As we get older, it's harder and harder to convince ourselves to try new things. You should actively fight that to keep life fresh and full of excitement. Don't let the words that were burned into you as a kid influence your rational adult decisions.

Specific subject aside, I totally agree with you. Life’s too short and the world is too amazing to get stuck in a rut, and I’m ready to give it all a try. You’ve got a vacation planned to live with shepherds in the Alps for a couple of weeks? Save me a space in your yurt. Let’s do this.

But truthfully, the third alternative in alcohol vs weed is “none of the above”. I’m not obligated to choose a vice, and if I had to give up alcohol today, say for health reasons, it’d be a small bummer but I don’t know that I’d rush to replace it.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#346

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

This comes from the point of view that harm is a scalar quantity. There are many different dimensions of harm and they vary wildly for each activity/drug. Reality is more nuanced than any single measure we select.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#347
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

That is faulty logic. We hypothesize that mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 are safe but do not know the long term effects. Why should we exercise conservatism for some drugs but not for vaccines? To be clear, I'm just using that as an example of logical inconsistency and I recommend that everyone eligible protect themselves by getting vaccinated. I also think that all recreational drugs should be legalized (or at least dec…

While that is technically correct, mRNA is something your body makes in relatively large quantities every day. As such if it was harmful life itself wouldn't be possible.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh-ho, no, not in my experience. I used to be devastatingly introverted. Alcohol helped, but it’s nothing compared to GHB or MDMA. Ecstasy will give you the gift of gab like you can’t believe. minor edit: I should say I am ignoring the context of where it’s acceptable to do such things. You probably shouldn’t do G at Christmas with the in-laws. (Though our quarantine Christmas this year with friends…) I’m just making…

sure, but its not really socially acceptable to drop X at the company happy hour. also mistakenly falling into a G Hole at the local BBQ is generally frowned upon. Having a couple beers is unlikely to lead to career or social suicide.

IF the "few beers" turns into ONE too many, it will lead to the same career and social suicide. Driving under the influence, fighting, lewd acts, etc... I live in a state where Weed is legal. I don't see people high decide to fight everyone at the party. I have seen this with alcohol more than I care to admit.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#349
post #202

I am fine with abstinence as a general recommendation, but critical thinking pointed out two issues with the WHF Policy Brief, which I suppose I have read in sufficient depth: 1. There is no citation on the sentence, "Recent evidence has found that no level of alcohol consumption is safe for health." This is really the only line we are interested in. 2. There is no comparison on the effects of alcohol on the body by…

Would any non-trivial substance be deemed "safe" under these criteria?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#350

as someone who grew up i a community that has for many reasons, religious, social, economic that no one really does alcohol. when there is nobody who is drunk, we have 0 drunk driving cases, 0 cases of people ending up in wrong places, 0 cases of alcoholism, 0 cases of "well we will just mix a drink with something more recreational", no need for AA among a host of other things including not having to budget alcohol i…

Could it be that it’s the result of prohibition? Because the Temperance Movement advocated a few of the things you mentioned. Ken Burns has a great doc on Prohibition!

from my small understanding of "prohibition" it was like thry tried to enforce it by way of brute muscle and people found ingenious ways to fool the system. what would the result have been if they had worked on educating people and building a society wide consensus about its ill effects.
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