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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#561

Post by kmano8 »

granshaw wrote: post #524
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #224

One of the good things that I think happened from the pandemic is that more and more people are realizing that tying up your identity and sense of self-worth in your job is a bad thing, that's why I'm very glad to see compensation so high on this list. Sure, everyone wants to work in a good working environment, but I think the idea that "nobody left because of the money" is finally being put to bed. The fact is that…

To expand on this, when can we stop asking “so what do you do?” as one of the first things when meeting someone for the first time?

Yeah- I'm guilty of this, and try to ask something like "what are you into right now?"

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#562

Post by jollybean »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #231
newsbinator wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made I don't hint because it's too confusing. I try to very politely offer options, where one option is me looking for another opportunity. It's not as though it's a secret to either party that's always an option.

This. Employer might not have even known quitting was on the table if there is only a hint. Be bold and direct to reduce miscommunication and you'll be the one standing with integrity.

Or ... instead of being 'bold and direct' and assuming that 'you are the one with integrity' ...

... try letting them know your position tactfully, and be reasonable by trying to understand your own demands in context, with eye on both industry norms and norms within the company, and creating a good outcome for both sides.

And dispense with this 'integrity' moralizing.

Much like young CEO's trying to nego with VC's, hiring managers and companies do this day in and day out, they see it all, moreover, they have a different set of objectives, which you have to respect and build them into your consideration.

It's definitely a good idea that they know you might have competing offers, or that you are strongly considering moving on, but those are things you definitely don't want to browbeat them over. A simple, tactful acknowledgement is good enough. I would recommend having a quick chat in-person about it. And stay away from hard lines or antics.

The grass is always greener on the other side, wherever you go it'll be great for 6 months and then you'll discover a bunch of things you don't like ... while there's definitely a lot to be said for moving on, sometimes I think that grinding is definitely under appreciated.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#563

Post by manquer »

HideousKojima wrote: post #431
Osiris wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were so happy why did you start looking for another job? People don't leave because someone gave them an offer out of the blue. They have to start looking in the first place and whatever triggered that search is what's important.

Because I'm trying to start a family and to move into a bigger house, and I knew that there were little to no opportunities for advancement/promotion at my current job. It's really not that complicated.

You were unhappy there were no advancement opportunities so you started looking?, OP is saying the same thing, if it was perfect people generally don't look for new jobs.

It is not because of loyalty it is because we are risk averse, a new job is a lot of risk. Many things can go wrong you may not like that new job, or even purely financially it can be risky as a new company may not pay as promised, shutdown, you get fired pretty quick and may not find a job at same compensation , or variable/ equity compensation wasn't as good as promised/imagined. All of these scenarios have substantial financial risk.

To take that risk(even if only financial) there has to strong motivation.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#564

Post by louwrentius »

hsn915 wrote: post #350

I'm not leaving my job yet, but strongly thinking about doing it in the near future. The reason is simple: I am not employable. I mean that in a good way. I hate being an employee. I hate having to go by the rules that other people make up even though I strongly disagree with. I hate being in an industry that does not share my engineering values. So to that end, I voted "company culture" on this pool. More importantl…

Become a contractor?

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#565

Post by sangnoir »

r0s wrote: post #497
sangnoir wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something fundamental changes in your life when you become debt-free. Being able to pay off a debt at anytime is equally freeing, for me at least. Paying off a loan with an interest rate significantly below inflation is not a great use of money[1] (and an opportunity loss). Putting that lumpsum into bonds ( any bond with interest higher than the loan) is better, or even investing in stocks with a stop-loss. If I lo…

The opportunity loss is what I don't get. Without the debt you can take on new debt that could be say a rental property or business loan. How is a bunch of money tied up in debt, and an equal amount invested to hedge that not a huge opportunity sink?

It's hard to argue in the abstract without figures and expected returns. If paying off the debt opens the door higher returns, then I'm all for it. All things being equal, I'll keep $250k cash with a $250k mortgage at 2.7% today, as opposed to a paid-off house and a $250k hole in my account.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#567

Post by manquer »

jjav wrote: post #534
diob wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

I do find it surprising compensation is at the top. I've never changed jobs over money. In fact several times I've taken new jobs that pay less on the promise of it being more fun. Which is not to say I'll work for unreasonably low pay, I talk comp ranges with recruiters first to know if it is worth continuing the discussion. But beyond a reasonable point, more pay doesn't make any difference (well, unless it's like…

If the compensation does not impact basic lifestyle, then yes people do like to choose better /interesting jobs provided their hygiene needs are getting met, that is becoming harder every year. Rents/ Mortgages / College Fees are all climbing higher than compensation increases at the entry level.

Even in tech there are a plenty of people paid less than 80 or 90k. On top of that these hefty student loans and high rent , steep mortgages that today's emerging work force is burdened with, it is not easy to ignore even small financial incentives when they are always trying to make ends meet and have to make basic quality of life sacrifices.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#568

Post by jollybean »

ericmcer wrote: post #174
xenihn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still too many managers who don't understand one of their primary responsibilities in a market that favors employees: making sure that their best engineers don't leave. The job market won't always be like this, but you'd think that they would have figured it out by now during the current run. It's been nearly a decade at this point, and the pandemic has tipped things even further in the favor of the people…

I have been surprised how emotionally unaware many of my managers are. They are engineers who moved to management and seem to think reading a bunch of books on management will make them adept at the social skills needed to read and adapt to individuals and a teams emotional state. Compensation is huge but good software devs are all making enough to where a 20-30% swing in either direction isn't going to make or break…

"Loved what I was doing"

"and felt endeared of my manager"

"our goals"

So 1 and 3 are a little bit more objective, you can determine those on your own.

But #2?

If you're worried about your managers 'EQ' - why do you not contemplate your own?

Do you assume a lack of visceral empathy from your manager means that they 'don't care' - and - even if they didn't care that much, why do you care?

It's nice when my manager says 'Great Work' and it's important to know I'm respected - that's a matter of professionalism, i.e. recognition of competence.

But I do don't care one bit otherwise.

My manager is busy. Putting out fires, dragged into stupid meetings. I would not want his job.

Why would I want to burden him with having worry about 'me'.

Reading this thread I'm a bit dismayed by a lot of emotion just brimming beneath the surface, I think small things have a tendency to collect up on people over time ... but I also don't suspect that staffers realize how much control they have over their disposition towards most of these things things.

I wish more people had experience managing or even with directorships, it can be brutal - those are probably the two, worst jobs in the system, and it's interesting how far the gap in understanding is between front-line contributor, and just one layer up.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#569

Post by tqi »

coldcode wrote: post #132

Rather than look for another job I retired at 63.5. My job was long hours, high stress, high visibility, continuous deadlines and changes that never ended at a large non FAANG company. Compensation was OK (not FAANG but OK for where I am). Everything I or my team shipped worked great; but lots of things with these challenges never shipped for political/idiotic reasons. So much budget was wasted on Exec whims and fant…

> but lots of things with these challenges never shipped for political/idiotic reasons. So much budget was wasted on Exec whims and fantasy.

Curious - was this a new(ish) phenomenon, or was this something that you experienced throughout your career and decided it wasn't worth it anymore?

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#570

Post by dwaltrip »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #259
shuntress wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what you can do: Hold and express sincere trust in and appreciation of your employees.

Sincere trust and appreciation doesn't make my retirement any closer. Show your appreciation with cash.

The comment said “employees”, not “employers” :)
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