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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#311

Post by laserlight »

deagle50 wrote: post #281
daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

Re "trust is broken" - I used to think like this and I understand, but I would encourage you to try a more nuanced POV. There's a decent chance your manager was simply not allowed to accommodate you, and your verbal notice unlocked options from upper management.

> There's a decent chance your manager was simply not allowed to accommodate you

A trusted party wouldn’t hesitate to explain the situation.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#312

Post by spamizbad »

jzb wrote: post #70
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

That's a pervasive story that lots of people want to be true, but I can tell you firsthand it's not something you should bank on. I've definitely left jobs because money and only money. I've definitely watched co-workers and friends do the same. There's definitely a ratio of job satisfaction / money where more money won't cancel out a toxic work environment (there's no reasonable amount of money that would persuade m…

I think its more like nobody is leaving jobs just to paltry 5-10% pay bumps. Naturally people are far more likely to leave if we're talking like a 20% or more bump, even if they're satisfied where they are.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#313

Post by simplestats »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #153
rr808 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might have been true in the old days when competitors paid 10, 20, 30% more. Now some tech companies are paying like 2x, 3x, 4x regular dev wages and its a reason to dedicate your life to this.

Explain what you mean by 2,3,4x more please. You can look at levels.fyi and if you are in a big tech see what the big companies are paying, that sets the market. In my experience the amounts of sometimes shockingly high, but eliminate a few crazy outliers and I see accurate rates. I'm a 20 year experienced principal engineer, and I see rates that match what I get. So what would 2,3,4x mean. Do you mean that much over…

Is principal engineer typical for 20 years experience where you are? Or are they typically stuck at senior engineer? Because if you're ahead of the average already like that, then indeed it will be hard to do better elsewhere.

Having said that, yes I agree it does seem that at higher levels companies are a lot better about fitting compensation to that of competitors.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#314

Post by wonderwonder »

mindslight wrote: post #221
alex_anglin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great ones also realize that there are other things employees value and build upon those, along with compensation.

The great ones also just leave themselves, rather than suffering the toxic culture on two fronts.

I think this is an often missed point. The managers are often just as overworked as the employees but have to handle negativity from 2 directions, both their employees and their managers. They are just people and often their hands are tied due to company policy. They are often just cogs in the wheel as much as we are.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#315

Post by HEmanZ »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

I quite literally just quit and my decision was 90% because of compensation. I more than doubled my pay, which completely changes the material circumstances of my life.

Do engineers leave for 10% raises? Probably rarely. But for 50%-100% raises? That seems like a damn good reason to leave.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#317

Post by wonderwonder »

xenihn wrote: post #181
spockz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the managers, from my experience managers themselves have little to say and it is mostly HR that determines rules like compensation. In our case, insanely, salaries are frozen. Nothing that your direct manager can do about it. Except, leave, and get hired the next day.

This is a fair point. It seems like standard policy at lots of places is to not budge significantly on comp unless a Valued Employee is prepared to leave. You then end up with one of the three scenarios: - the employee leaves anyways, since it's too late to change their mind - the employee stays, but there's a loss of trust and loyalty - the employee never planned to leave in the first place, and exploited your broke…

Willing to be there is a study that shows that most of the time the employee will not leave or is bluffing and that financial analysis shows its better to just let it play out. This analysis is probably true in a lot of industries but tends to not work so well in tech. So many tech workers are just mercenary with our jobs that we just ask for what we want and by the time we ask we are already out the door. In tech the business should realize their job is to actively work to keep employees from seeking competing offers especially in the current job market.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#318

Post by sangnoir »

phkahler wrote: post #180
foobarian wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay off your house when you can keep the cash in an investment account making > 5% APR vs. the house loan which presumably is in the low 3s.

>> Why would you pay off your house when you can keep the cash in an investment... I asked someone that in my mid 20's. He said "It's nice knowing I can support my family working at McDonalds if I have to." That stuck with me. Something fundamental changes in your life when you become debt-free.

> Something fundamental changes in your life when you become debt-free.

Being able to pay off a debt at anytime is equally freeing, for me at least. Paying off a loan with an interest rate significantly below inflation is not a great use of money[1] (and an opportunity loss). Putting that lumpsum into bonds (any bond with interest higher than the loan) is better, or even investing in stocks with a stop-loss. If I lose my job and have to flip burgers, that's when I'll pay off the loan and get a little extra from the investment/bond, thanks to the power of compounding interest.

1. Its the equivalent of someone offering you a 6- or 7-figure loan payable in 20/30 years at 2-3% when inflation is 6%, and you decline.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#319

Post by jermeh »

Today is my last day at my current job. I had a colleague leave last year after he had some issues with his team, and I learned that a significant salary bump was pretty easy to get. I was _really_ bored at my role, and didn't see a strong future for our project and company, so I started looking.

I'll be starting a new job at the end of the month. Salary is over 2x my current pay, and if you include equity the total compensation will be 3.5x my current pay. I will have to relocate (which I wanted to do anyway), but I can't fathom why anyone _wouldn't_ be looking right now given the state of the job market.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#320

Post by waffle_maniac »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

If money isn't the issue then you won't mind us flipping salaries, will you, boss?
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