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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#361

Post by Osiris »

HideousKojima wrote: post #265
diob wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

Strong disagree for me. I'm starting a new job in less than two weeks, but the current job I'm leaving has been the best so far in my career. Wasn't perfect by any means but it exceeded most of my expectations by far. My new job is paying 60% more than my current job, that's my reason for switching and not much else.

If you were so happy why did you start looking for another job? People don't leave because someone gave them an offer out of the blue. They have to start looking in the first place and whatever triggered that search is what's important.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#362

Post by jiggawatts »

dobs_bob wrote: post #336
AlwaysRock wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was playing a board game with my 7-year-old niece recently. She negotiates the same way most companies do. She holds the line firmly until her bluff is called, and then backtracks quickly once it's too late. The biggest différance is my 7-year-old will learn, while companies will continue to make the same mistakes.

It's like they all take the same crappy HR seminar from 20 years ago and haven't updated their skills since. Times have changed.

No, times have not changed. People are still human, employee problems are the same as ever.

HR was never good at dealing with this, that’s not a new thing.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#364

Post by steveBK123 »

strgcmc wrote: post #339
steveBK123 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many roles / too many hats is far too common and why I find it hard to stay anywhere more than 4-5 years. As a senior IC in a super-flat & growing org.. I'm almost like a customer successs engineer, product manager, scrum master, senior developer and tech lead all rolled into one. Management administrivia I accumulate administrative things my manager doesn't want to do & pushes down I do unofficially own a part o…

TBH, reading this as a manager, I have to admit I feel like asking my engineers to take on SOME of these beyond-just-the-code duties... is a good thing? Obviously there are a bunch of caveats, and nuances to whether you want an IC engineer to be 100% coding and 0% talking to customers or doing admin (this seems bad), or is it 90% vs 10% (maybe okay), or 80/20 (sweet spot?), 50/50 (concerning), 20/80 (bad again), etc.…

Right, I'm rather experienced and make many multiples of 50k/yr, so its not really a compensation thing.

It's more that it feels very ephemeral / tenuous as none of it is in an org chart or official. It is basically what problems management has to solve and what seniors are available at the moment.

I am, officially in title and org chart an IC. In reality 10-20% of my time is IC dev work. 6 months ago it was 50%, 6 months before that it was 0%.

Further it feels like too much of a time split to really get any better at any of the aspects - software dev, tech lead, product, people management of this role.

What does this look like in FAANG?

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#365

Post by oauea »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

> he'd start by asking what was bothering them

lack of money

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#366

Post by MereInterest »

newsbinator wrote: post #211
daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

> I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made I don't hint because it's too confusing. I try to very politely offer options, where one option is me looking for another opportunity. It's not as though it's a secret to either party that's always an option.

I wouldn't hint either, but because at best it puts you in an incredibly vulnerable position.

First, it indicates that you're willing to look for a new job, which decreases opportunities at your job. Maybe that means being passed over for larger projects, since they're less certain if you'll be there through the entire project. Maybe that means not receiving ongoing training, because they're uncertain that they'd benefit from it. Repeat this over a longer period of time, and your list of accomplishments comes short, because you've been denied opportunities.

Second, it opens you up to retribution. The USA has at-will employment, meaning that you can be fired at any time, and have no legal recourse for it. It can be for any reason that isn't explicitly prohibited, or can be for no reason at all. Looking for a new job is much less stressful when you already have a job. If you indicate that you might look for a new job without already having an offer, you could end up doing a more stressful job search while on a countdown to bankruptcy.

Third, even if you have an offer letter, it still isn't a position for effective bargaining. The employer could agree to the raise, wait a month until your offer expires, and then fire you.

I hate that it's a game that needs to be played. I hate the deception, and wish that there could be smoother transitions instead. But so long as the power disparity exists between employer and employee, you should never hint that you're looking for a new job until you are announcing your resignation, and you should never accept a counteroffer after having announced it. Maybe that would be different in a system with stronger unions or better protections for workers, but that isn't the system we're in.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#367

Post by Frost1x »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #78
daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

When the worker has another offer in hand, you've already lost as a hiring manager/org.

Not necessarily. You're at a disadvantage because you've suddenly lost the total leverage you once (thought you) had. It's still possible for the org to redeem itself. The issue is, no org takes the opportunity.

Part of the issue is that businesses have become so greedy people no longer even want to waste their time negotiating with them. Once I have an offer in hand, I can ask you for some things like a raise, reduced hours, etc. The general response will always be no. At that point I can tell you I have a competing offer in hand and you can then, when you realize you lost leverage too late, attempt to recover the situation. The issue at this point is that you've lost all my trust and I can see indirect retaliation as a reasonable followup should I choose to stay and relinquish my leverage. So it's almost always in my best interest to leave at that point and yes, you "lost."

Alternatively I could have leverage, or maybe I don't, but perhaps when I ask for a promotion or raise you don't immediately discard the discussion or tossed some canned "budgets are tight" argument when margins are visibly fat. You listen and evaluate (and not slowly) and make a decision not based on being cheap but based on actual value. Suddenly, I have a familiar devil I already know and a better setup than I did before. Suddenly you became competitive. No only did you take me seriously and perform an objective evaluation, you followed through with it. You just earned loyalty points which are hard to come by. I expect in the future if I come with another reasonable request, you'll evaluate and attempt to meet it fairly. I suddenly like you.

Now, if I have an offer in hand and I already know you cannot match it because I understand the financials very well and... you really can't afford it, then yes unfortunately you probably did lose. You may be able to compete by making other sacrifices that are less financial in nature but if the offer is significantly higher, unfortunately there's little way I'll stay. Early in my career from my first position I tripled my salary in my first move. My first employer was genuinely great but I knew they couldn't ever reasonably meet that offer so I didn't really even try to negotiate, I just gave them more notice than normal.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#370

Post by thirteenfingers »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #348
thebeefytaco wrote: post #223

Why wouldn't you list vax mandates and general covid policies as responses?

I'm curious about this, as well. In fact, I have 17 days left before I'm placed on unpaid leave for this very reason-- despite being 100% remote and the coercion and adverse actions being violations of my state's employment law .

I'm actually in a very similar situation - in fact I'm trying to go on unpaid leave as a preemptive measure. I would happily undertake other mitigation measures, including working remote, biweekly testing, masking etc., and my (extremely supportive) boss has been trying to pull off some alternative arrangement for me, but he's not the one who decides these policies.
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