Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

media.uzh.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 222 posts

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#171

Post by blindmute »

GordonS wrote: post #102
sersi wrote: post #59

I remember waking up to go to school every morning at 6:45 and taking the bus every day at 7:05 when I was in high school in France. Most months the sun hadn't even risen yet. It was punishing, and I definitely was sleep deprived by the end of the week. Because of the schedule, my parents had me go to sleep around 9pm but I had a hard time sleeping then and tended to not fall asleep before midnight/1 am. I'd either l…

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I…

If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned.

Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#172

Post by stouset »

blindmute wrote: post #171
GordonS wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I…

If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned. Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.

This isn’t how bodies or sleep work in the general case.

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#173

Post by JPKab »

ModernMech wrote: post #168
JPKab wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if I was talking about people in winter conditions wearing gaiters or actual ski masks to protect from the cold. Wearing surgical masks outdoors in normal temperatures is not based in science. It's theoretical at best, but there's never been any data to refute the fact that almost all transmission occurs within households and enclosed public places. It's just fearful people calming their anxiety with something tha…

I'm not talking about a gaiters and ski masks situation. I'm talking about a normal winter day, walking down the street, wearing a normal standard cloth mask. It keeps my face warm and I like it. If you assume I or others are doing it because of covid, it just a reflection of your personal biases. > Kids sitting indoors isolated from their peers in front of computer screens is not a good thing. You didn't comment on…

I look forward to looking at your other post and hearing your experiences as a teacher. My wife and her colleagues have experiences that are not positive but perhaps that's a reflection of the age group.

I think you are not understanding that it's not a bias if I see people wearing mask outdoors in completely mild weather and assume it's for the virus. Do you really think that people need to keep their faces warm when it's 65° and sunny? If I was walking around in freezing cold temperatures complaining about this you would have some fair point although a cloth mask is a grossly inferior way to keep your face warm compared to a gator where a ski mask.

Do you wear your mask outdoors when it's 70°? If you saw someone wearing a mask outdoors and 70° weather wouldn't you assume it's for disease protection?

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#174

Post by progman32 »

blindmute wrote: post #171
GordonS wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I…

If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned. Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.

Don't take this personally (I really do mean it) but I think this attitude is part of the problem. My best, most alert hours are after ten pm. I can't just will those away, and I've tried. There is enormous social stigma around being a late riser. We're characterized as having low self control or accused of laziness. Perhaps that's deserved in some cases, but morning people can be those things too. I can go to bed at six pm and I'll guarantee you I'll still be a wreck at six am.

Night owls work well in the evening. Even if some of them can force themselves to operate early, is it reasonable to expect them to sacrifice their best hours?

Rant over, it's early for me after all :)

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#175

Post by hirako2000 »

GordonS wrote: post #102
sersi wrote: post #59

I remember waking up to go to school every morning at 6:45 and taking the bus every day at 7:05 when I was in high school in France. Most months the sun hadn't even risen yet. It was punishing, and I definitely was sleep deprived by the end of the week. Because of the schedule, my parents had me go to sleep around 9pm but I had a hard time sleeping then and tended to not fall asleep before midnight/1 am. I'd either l…

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I…

my solution worked ok: sleep at school. it's not ideal, but it also saved me from being entirely brainwashed and prevented teachers from killing my creativity.

let's not ignore the fact schools were designed long ago to 1/ shape future factory workers into well behaved blue collars, while 2/ making it possible for parents to go to work.

before the industrial revolution, most people were farmers. Kids were out playing, stayed home safe or participated to gardening activities.

the issue with school is far more deep rooted into how our society sadly operates. it may be impossible to fix one without addressing the other.

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#176

Post by BlueTemplar »

JPKab wrote: post #162
ModernMech wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you see people walking around outside wearing masks, know that they have bought into a foolish lie completely removed from any form of science. It's 19F outside right now. I wear a mask outside because it keeps my face warm. No idea why people haven't been doing this all along. That you just assume everyone wearing a mask outdoors is a rube says more about you than them. Your post isn't being downvoted by fool…

As if I was talking about people in winter conditions wearing gaiters or actual ski masks to protect from the cold. Wearing surgical masks outdoors in normal temperatures is not based in science. It's theoretical at best, but there's never been any data to refute the fact that almost all transmission occurs within households and enclosed public places. It's just fearful people calming their anxiety with something tha…

AFAIK masks outside in big cities is because people otherwise tend to forget to put them on when going inside (say in a shop). Add this to surgical masks being designed to protect others rather than the wearer, (it was really noticeable to me when after switching from a surgical to a FFP2 mask my ~hay fever symptoms disappeared), and you can see how it makes sense to switch that mandate on when it looks like hospitals are going to overflow soon.

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#177

Post by BlueTemplar »

laurent92 wrote: post #15
Extropy_ wrote: post #13

I was in Grade 7 the first time they closed schools here in Ontario. I certainly didn't get enough sleep, usually around five or six, maybe seven hours at most. The second time around was even worse. I didn't do work, I didn't go outside, all I did was mess about on my computer. In general, it was- and is- a horribly unhealthy experience for me, both mentally and physically. Although, I still struggle with this "remo…

Thinking that lockdowns are a solution to anything, including a pandemic, was a neat way to drive many people insane. I won’t tell my personal… happenings… but I double on your difficulty.

Too little, too late. If only we have been much faster and stronger to react we could have avoided this WHOLE epidemic with a mere ~1 month hard lockdown... (instead we indeed seem to have picked one of the worst ways to deal with it, short of course of no measures at all)

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#178

Post by washadjeffmad »

blindmute wrote: post #171
GordonS wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the same as a kid - I really struggled with the early mornings, and could never sleep before midnight. Come the weekend, and I was so tired I'd sleep until midday. When I first started at high school, I was a great student, for example winning multiple prizes over the first 18 months. But the tiredness really took a toll, and for most of the rest of school I was a half zombie - I still did well at school, but I…

If you were so tired, why couldn't you just sleep earlier at night? If I'm remembering my own teen years correctly, most of us chose to stay up late not because we couldn't sleep, but because we just wanted to, sleep be damned. Everyone complains about having to get up early, but the sleep deprivation is self inflicted. If you're tired, you can sleep at 9pm.

Two reasons, chiefly.

Every body is governed by circadian rhythm. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to be, but the majority tends to overrule the minority in this great experiment we call modern society. Unfortunately, the "majority" are not developing children, but adults in authority who are less affected by disruptions to their sleep and don't have to prioritize the health and wellbeing of their charges and so don't.

The second reason is more artificial. In the US, homework is given without any consideration for work or life schedules, let alone what other classes are assigning. I went to a "school of excellence" where I took eight classes each day, five days a week, and they all assigned roughly an hour's worth of homework each night. I had no time to work and barely any time to participate in extracurriculars without staying up each night until 11pm. Because I lived in a different city, I generally had to leave by 5:45am to make my zero period.

Can you tell me what my younger self could have done differently so they were able to be asleep by 9pm?

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#179

Post by wobblybubble »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #159
wobblybubble wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

“Retard” is often used as a pejorative. I’ve never heard “retardation” used as a pejorative, when people use that word they seem to be using it correctly in a non offensive context.

Fair enough.

Re: School closures led to more sleep and better quality of life for adolescents

#180

Post by ModernMech »

JPKab wrote: post #173
ModernMech wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about a gaiters and ski masks situation. I'm talking about a normal winter day, walking down the street, wearing a normal standard cloth mask. It keeps my face warm and I like it. If you assume I or others are doing it because of covid, it just a reflection of your personal biases. > Kids sitting indoors isolated from their peers in front of computer screens is not a good thing. You didn't comment on…

I look forward to looking at your other post and hearing your experiences as a teacher. My wife and her colleagues have experiences that are not positive but perhaps that's a reflection of the age group. I think you are not understanding that it's not a bias if I see people wearing mask outdoors in completely mild weather and assume it's for the virus. Do you really think that people need to keep their faces warm whe…

What you originally said was:

  When you see people walking around outside wearing masks, know that they have bought into a foolish lie completely removed from any form of science.
Now you've shifted to:

  it's not a bias if I see people wearing mask outdoors in completely mild weather and assume it's for the virus.
Which is much more reasonable. You've qualified it to particular situations rather than a blanket "outdoors", and then said you assume rather than you know.

Other possible explanations people wear masks outdoors other than being gullible fools:

- they forgot to take it off. That happens to me sometimes when I'm deep in thought.

- they have a cold sore and want to hide that.

- they came from indoors and their hands are full so they can't take it off.

- they came from indoors and are going indoors into another building.

etc.

Did you ever consider any of these alternatives? Or actually, have you asked any of these people why they wear a mask outdoors?

Post reply on HN