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Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

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Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#151

Post by ok123456 »

josephcsible wrote: post #140
ok123456 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pure survivorship bias. Everyone else who encounters major problems with their Tesla gets rid of it, and therefore wouldn't choose to buy their Tesla again because they don't have it anymore. People who do have one new enough not to have a major defect will overlook small issues with the build quality and other complaints that people have about Tesla, because they've bought into a luxury and lifestyle brand. W…

Why wouldn't that apply to every car brand?

Then they would have ratings similar to every other car brand all things being equal. One can infer the hazard function given such a skewed distribution.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#152

Post by sahila »

walrus01 wrote: post #42
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see this all the time but then if you want to buy a new Tesla you have to wait a year. And that is due to demand. High demand doesn't mean the product is quality. Fyre festival sold thousands of tickets, even though it was fundamentally fraudulent. Video games are another perfect example: fans pre-order AAA titles that studios fail to deliver over and over and over again. Demand just means that people like the id…

> Video games are another perfect example: fans pre-order AAA titles that studios fail to deliver over and over and over again I literally pre-ordered Anthem, and then apparently having not learned my lesson, did the same with Cyberpunk 2077. Enough said...

The thing about games vs cars is games aren't even supply-constrained; you just download a copy from the store!

Even if you buy the physical games, they're almost always available within a few days of release at most. Just not a good idea to preorder games.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#153

Post by panick21_ »

walrus01 wrote: post #4

see also: Tesla ranks almost dead last on Consumer Reports reliability list https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/tesla-model-s-no-longer-reco... I hope this doesn't come across as excessively smug but I think my life, level of stress and personal finances are measurably improved by owning something that is closer to a $9000 Toyota Corolla and spending money o…

The value of those rankings is very low, the methodology is flawed. And doesn't accurately reflect the relative inconvenience of flaws.

Tesla for EV have had pretty amazing success in terms of battery and drive train reliability.

If you are going to consider a Corolla, you were not the target audience in the first place and even if Tesla was literally the best company in terms of reliability it wouldn't make you a potential costumer either.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#154

Post by masterof0 »

whiskyant wrote: post #113
woodruffw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers tend to rate higher satisfactions with "luxury" goods (i.e., goods at premium prices, regardless of material quality or value) than they do with non-luxury goods. It occurs to me that that bias affects Tesla's reception as well.

The model 3 and y is on that top 10 list as well, and they're not quite luxury goods.

In the real world, outside FAANGistan , paying 50k for a car, IS a luxury. I said that as a fellow FAANGistanian.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#155

Post by theshadowknows »

userbinator wrote: post #102

For affected Model 3 owners, Tesla has pledged to install a new cable harness and guide protector free of charge. Wiring harness flexing and chafing is a decades-old well-known problem with well-known solutions. I wonder what the people who designed that area are thinking now, when they were presumably trying to save costs? If Teslas' issues were specific to being EVs or otherwise new functionality specific to its ca…

My understanding of the automotive industry is that they cut corners everywhere they can because they know it’ll save more money than a lawsuit or recall will cost. Do they do these things and when someone dies or raises a stink only then do they do the recall.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#156

Post by kazen44 »

mxschumacher wrote: post #55
noah_buddy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that those headlines are even nearly so newsworthy! This Tesla recall is only 20k less than all that they sold in 2020. Ford recalling 200k cars is only 5% of what they sold in that same year. This is a relatively large proportion of all Tesla's on the road.

it's interesting how Tesla is definitely not a car company when somebody mentions their absurd valuation but just like all the other car companies when something goes bad. Cannot have it both ways. I have read about Toyota's impressive production systems and then hear people claiming that Tesla's manufacturing capability is 10x better than anybody else's. At some point we'll have to decide whether looking like a duck…

Tesla's manufacturing capabilities are notoriously bad.

the inconsistency in their finishing on the cars is telling. the tech inside the cars is amazing, but not being able to do things like proper bodywork or having lots of cars with after production line installs is a sure sign of an immature production process.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#157

Post by rconti »

I'm confused-- these seem like 2 totally separate issues. The Model 3 issue doesn't even sound like a trunk latching issue, it sounds like a cable-harness-in-a-hinge issue?

I actually have a Model 3 that exhibited an annoying rear camera problem (now fixed). It had to "go in" to be fixed 3 times, for complicated reasons, but I found the ultimate fix (an OTA update) to be annoying. I had read on the forums that harness damage was not-uncommon, particularly among people who had installed a power trunk closing retrofit and somehow managed to damage the harness in the process (oops!)

Basically:

* When the car was new, rear camera did turn on 100% of the time, but failure rate was pretty low. The car had a few minor bugs and the camera seemed to be one. Within a few months most of the bugs were sorted and I had no regular issues with the camera anymore. (way less than 1% failure rate I'd say -- not unlike I've noticed in other cars).

* ~ April 2021 the camera started failing to come up with some regularity, immediately after a software update, so I suspected a bug, and just waited for it to get fixed. I think it basically never worked at this point. But it didn't get fixed in the next few updates. (this was when the car was 3 or 4 years old)

* A few months later, I took the car in for its final "warranty about to expire" visit. Probably the car's 2nd time at the service center in 3 years? I mentioned the camera along with a few other minor issues. They said they'd replace the harness through the trunklid if they had one, but thought it was out of stock. Sure enough, it was out of stock and they never 'fixed' it.

* Mobile service visit, came to my house and replaced the harness in about 20 minutes. But it didn't solve the problem. The tech said likely the FRONT coax harness would need to be replaced, which was much more involved and would require a service center visit.

* Scheduled service center visit.

* The night before the visit, they called and said "hey, is your camera fixed? We pushed an update". Well, I don't know. Even if it IS working, 12 hours isn't enough to tel whether an intermittent problem is permanently fixed.

* Took the car in, they examined everything, said it was fine, and it has been ever since.

The car's been relatively trouble free but I want to say this is the second time (possibly for the same camera issue) someone at Tesla pushed a update to the car the night before a service center visit, in the hope it fixed the problem. Why not prioritize these fixes for, I don't know, a few days before the visit, if you want to fix things OTA and limit the load on service centers?

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#158

Post by panick21_ »

gnicholas wrote: post #116
slg wrote: post #19

Just a reminder that cars are recalled all the time and the only reason you are seeing this article is because it is Tesla. Any other manufacturer and this would be a non-story especially on HN. Did Ford recalling 185k vehicles a couple days ago make the front page of HN? How about Toyota recalling 200k vehicles also a couple days ago?[2] Maybe Honda recalling 725k vehicles a month ago?[3] EDIT: Lots of people are ta…

It's true that there are recalls all the time. The differences with Tesla are: • Tesla already has a service/repair backlog. This will make things worse for owners whose brand new cars leak when it rains, make odd noises, and have safety issues. • Other manufacturers have extensive dealer and third party repair networks. They can handle large recalls more easily/efficiently. • Other manufacturers have many more cars…

Tesla finances and number of EV produced have already proven everything that needed to be proven.

Unless you want to argue this recall is gone have some massive impact on their finances its pretty much non issue. And arguing that would of course be nonsense.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#159

Post by rconti »

HWR_14 wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have bought several Teslas over the last 3 years (S->X->Y). Quality improves each time I’ve bought one. Lots to complain about, still wouldn’t buy from another manufacturer.

If there is a lot to complain about, why wouldn't you want to buy something else?

Because there are lots of things the Tesla does that nothing else does in the same way, or the overall package of other vehicles (price, features, functionality, intangibles, whatever) doesn't match for that particular buyer.

I'm constantly amazed that otherwise intelligent people latch on to a single "factual" reason that proves they must be correct about a matter of opinion, particularly when their experience set is often objectively less relevant. To wit: presumably the parent has owned numerous other cars in addition to the Teslas.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#160

Post by panick21_ »

gnicholas wrote: post #103
FullyFunctional wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, "recall" sounds like the cars have to physically move back to the factory. Reality: I took 10 sec to schedule a visit from a Mobile Technician who'll do the work in my driveway while I go on living my life. Big non-issue.

From what I hear, Tesla is notorious for repair delays. Even if it's not inconvenient to have a tech service your vehicle, presumably doing this nearly half a million times will make the repair backlog even longer.

It depends. If you need a major part of the body replaces, delays can be long. However, many repairs that the mobile service can do are much better.
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