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Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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421–430 of 484 posts

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#421
post #318

All: if you want to comment on HN on a divisive topic like this, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make sure you're commenting in the intended spirit: curious, thoughtful, respectful conversation across differences . Note, for example, this guideline—we really mean it: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " Many users can't se…

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

I think he meant to not devolve to into calling everyone a tankie bot or genocide denier if I were to ask you what non-editorial non NED or weapons manufacturer funded primary data you're referring to when you talk about "massive human rights violations".

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#422
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes people can judge for themselves. Having said that, I believe I also have some say in how I think I should be judged, and that I am allowed to push back at others' attempts to put me in a box. I am not "pro-CCP". I only look that way because western mainstream media is so full of anti-China propaganda that anyone who deviates from mainstream opinion look like pro-CCP. (At this point, some will say "we are only aga…

You may not be a paid shill (I’m certainly not accusing you of it - that would be against the rules) but your behaviour is indeed curious for someone who is trying to not look like one. For instance, why are you trying to get in touch with other HN’ers with a history of pro-China commentary? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29615344 Don’t be surprised that people are suspicious. And it’s not because of a differen…

What ModernMech said. I think what that other often downvoted user said made a lot of sense and that he's wrongfully being downvoted, so I wanted to talk to him in private and share our experiences. There is nothing wrong with that.

Also, "users here are very tolerant of that" — I'm sorry, I have to disagree with that hugely. You say I'm "suspicious" because... I have repeated behavior of being suspicious? That's a circular reasoning.

Also, this "repeated behavior of being suspicious" actually means "repeatedly having a different opinion about China". How is that being tolerant again?

It is exactly because of this that many people don't dare to post alternative opinions about China on Hacker News -- for fear of being socially ostracized. By chance I happened to encounter a few people on Twitter who turn out to be one of those so-called "bots" on HN, and they told me they posted anonymously because they fear the shit that will land on them (downvotes, accusations, more) if they post with their main accounts.

There is nothing suspicious about not answering about a subtopic. I can say things when I want to and not say things when I want to as long as I don't break any rules. I also don't answer about Hunter Biden for example, and I don't have to.

I already said many times before why I have a different opinion and I post so often about it. I am Chinese and I am fed up with the lies, propaganda, villification and manufacturing of war consent. There is nothing suspicious about speaking up when you think there is something wrong in a community.

In fact, I assert that the only reason you think such behavior is suspicious is because you have been too influenced by anti-China propaganda. You and the mainstream media have such a warped view of China in your minds that any message that deviates from the mainstream view automatically looks preposterous or fake. But here I am, a westernized Chinese who posted nearly nothing about China for 20 years of my Internet history, suddenly posting about China after having witnessed on the ground in early 2020 how many lies the media told about China and COVID (and as it turns out, many other topics as well), and being shocked and enraged at that. With a non-westernized Chinese citizen you can still say "oh but he's being censored/forced/brainwashed". As a westernized Chinese I have free access to information on both sides and I understand the western viewpoint very well. As a software developer who has developed stuff that hundreds of thousands of sites around the world uses and who has helped numerous clients, I have demonstrated my ability to do independent research. If there is anybody qualified to have a legitimate opinion about this topic, it would be me. So maybe you should seriously consider the possibility that, no maybe I'm not suspicious, it's you that may be wrong and that I may be right, and that the truth is in fact so far from that what you believe that the truth looks suspicious even when it isn't.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#423
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Here, check this: https://apparelinsider.com/bci-shanghai-claims-audit-finding... Just because people and outlets have a different opinion than you doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong, or "propagandists". Some people just have a different opinion, out of their own free will and independent thought, all right?

You are misrepresenting BCI by citing BCI Shanghai, which is a red herring in this discussion, see my other comment [1]. The problem with what you cite is not (only) with the outlet (CGTN), but with the source (BCI Shanghai), and also with using a red herring. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29666455

I'll have a look at your sources then.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation of African Americans nowadays is nowhere near comparable. The issue are the “jail looking” camps which are officially “education centers”. Forced labour happens there, which is basically slavery. Western companies don’t want to be associated with slavery. It’s hard enough when people are paid almost nothing, but here they are literally not paid and obliged to work. The living conditions of people in the…

When these allegations first appeared, I waited cautiously for evidence. Maybe something happened around me that I didn't know? When the BBC interviewed Xinjiang but failed to find evidence, and then only used video filters to render fear, I questioned the authenticity of these allegations. Later, the "evidence" displayed by the Western media had a lot of traces of forgery. After that, I didn't believe these allegati…

It's also an irony that people who have a slightest hint of saying China is not all good are easily regarded as traitors on the Chinese internet. Also some people living in China know that Chinese media outlets (all state-run) might be far more biased. But hey, I'm not playing whataboutism. It just seems so ironic to my Chinese eyes.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#425
post #23
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it slave labour, I mean are they being forced to do it and not being paid for it, then sure boycott it. If NOT, and if it is an avenue for prisoners to earn money, benefits, then don't boycott it

The problem is that privately run prisons require prisoners to pay for things that are realistically necessary despite not being legally mandated. They overcharge more than airports, and pay next to nothing. They suffer because of it, and non-prisoners suffer as well, as they're competing with what is functionally slave labour.

True, i agree with your point on private prisons. Anything for profit will skew the everything towards that which makes more profit

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#426

Wall St. does not care, so these companies can not care. Apple just gave BOE 20% of their OLED business to diversify away from Sanding and LG: Note that BOE is being propped up by the CCP to the tune of $100M a year in losses over the past decade as economic warfare against SK. Manufacturing is where today’s wars are being fought because these people know it gives them the power over those that would complain otherwi…

Many of these large companies dont believe the claims of human rights violations in Xinjiang because the research is shoddy and funded by problematic orgs that have massive ulterior motives (mostly winning large defense contracts) . Some of you are just as confident of what is going on in Xinjiang, with 0 evidence, as you were of Iraq's WMDs it seems. Ask yourself how much you really know.

As someone that's been there, I agree with this sentiment. I also happen to know people with cotton farms there, I even know how much they make, and nobody around is using slave labor.

(and no I do not support / happy with the CCP - this is just what I've seen/experienced)

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#427
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about culture. China has been interacting with the rest of the world for millennia. It's about mindset. It's about them not willing to let go of their chauvinistic imperial outlook they impart on themselves and to the world.

Nationalistic flamewar is not allowed on HN and posting this sort of nationalistic denunciation is not ok, regardless of which country you have a problem with. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

But the parent is? Han Chauvinism actually is an academic topic you know. It's not any denunciation, it's a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_chauvinism

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#428
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you were correct — and the Wikipedia page shows the pejorative uses becoming common are a fairly recent step of the euphemism treadmill — that doesn’t help resolve @pjc50’s request’s the term be defined in a way that allows someone to pattern match against Intel’s behaviour. The comment @pjc50 replied to has been flagged, so I can’t be certain exactly what this is about, but the article is literally about a c…

I am correct, and most people can deduct and extrapolate and draw from other experiences and observations and don't need everything spelt out for them to "pattern-match".

> don't need everything spelt out for them to "pattern-match".

At least three people you’re responding to here don’t see how Intel is being “woke” in any pejorative sense.

If I do as you suggest, deduct and extrapolate and draw from other experiences, I have two hypotheses:

1: you personally do not believe that there is a genocide occurring in these concentration camps with forced labour in them, and anyone who says there is, is just saying so for political points.

2: you personally think that forced labour in genocidal concentration camps is not a real crime, and anyone who says it is, is just saying so political points.

Do you perhaps want to suggest a way to apply “woke”, as the pejorative you insist it must be, in a way that makes you look better?

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#429
post #418

It's interesting to see that people on both sides are angry -- for different reasons. People on western Internet are angry at Intel for having issued an apology. People on Chinese Internet are angry because they view it as a non-apology, i.e. Intel still goes ahead with the ban. I see people -- including Chinese diaspora -- calling for banning Intel.

Hey, my favorite CCP shill, FooBarWidget: What is your official stance on Xi's new chair?

I don't care about his chair.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple. For example BCI performed multiple audits since 2012 and hasn't found a single case of forced labor.[1][2] Despite that, they've pulled back from Xinjiang. Companies don't want to deal with Xinjiang just so they can avoid controversies, regardless of actual facts. Also, the Xinjiang Forced Labor Prevention Act is based on the maxim of guilty-until-proven-innocent. There is no way to co…

Given your background and opinions on the matter, I'd be interested to hear what you think goes on in the large, barbed-wire lined, centers they regularly ship Uyghurs in and out of. Do you think they are genuinely good places meant to help an under privileged minority group?

If you really want to know, feel free to reach out to me in private. See my profile. Twitter preferred.
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