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Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

reuters.com

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#231

Post by bell-cot »

Perhaps Reuters is glossing over the way in which Intel's letter phrased things, but it certainly sounds as if they were utterly clueless about the subject being politically sensitive. Vs. (say) "Per U.S. law [exact, legalistic citation], signed into law on [date] by [President], Intel is legally forced to require that [dull, narrow, legalistic description of requirement, free of any hot-buttons]." Placed amid similar citations of other new laws - some of them Chinese - which affect Intel's supply chain.

Arguments about whether or not the third rail should carry 10,000 volts can be made all day. But corporate management that gets electrocuted because they were simply oblivious needs to be replaced.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#232

Post by tombh »

ChrisClark wrote: post #206
tombh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so out of your league here. Whilst you state facts, it is comical to imply that China can hold a candle to the West's atrocities. 18 different border disputes, 18!?? I mean how can you seriously think that's a big number? Just take the American continent itself. Honestly, think about it for a second, what if North America was inhabited by Mandarin-speakers from northern China and South America was inhabited b…

You seem to be attacking Western governments assuming we want to defend them? Our identity it's not tied to our governments, unlike you, we criticize them ALL the time. They do horrible things, but because a Western government has done horrible things doesn't mean China gets to do it too. We are not attacking you as a Chinese citizen, we are attacking the governments who do wrong. This comment chain is specifically a…

It seems you may think I'm Chinese? I'm actually 100% British.

I think something to bear in mind with the topic of comparing the West and China is that they aren't actually 2 independent entities that have now come of age, each imposing its unique stamp on the world. What China is today is fundamentally defined by European colonialism. Chinese culture is actually thousands of years older than European culture, and for the majority of human history was the most advanced, richest and successful, at least certainly in comparison to Europe pre and post the Romans. Now recall what Europe did to Native American, African and Australian cultures, which cover almost half the planet. China has something called The Century of Humiliation[1]. Those colonial forces that banished the Cherokee, the Inca, the Mbundu, the aborigines, to the pages of history, eventually arrived in China, and I think quite understandably China fought tooth and nail to avoid the same fate.

So when I criticise those in the West that criticise China, I'm not just trying to equalise the argument to include criticism of all governments. China is not just another evil empire. Modern China is specifically what happens when you have the desire, and more importantly means, to defend yourself against the forces of Western colonialism. China famously burnt its colonial fleet in the 15th Century[2], they are actually not a naturally colonial culture. A metaphor could be something like: when you punch so many people so hard, that most of them die, it's impossible for them to criticise your behaviour, because they're, well dead. So when one of them, after seeing all the dead people, and then getting punched themselves, manages to survive, and even starts to return punches in order to survive, those "fists" of criticism are an extremely understandable survival instinct.

Pointing the finger at China's "punches" is profoundly ironic, because not only have we thrown more punches, and caused more destruction, but we incited those punches.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_treasure_voyages#Causes_o...

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#233

Post by FooBarWidget »

exo762 wrote: post #201
FooBarWidget wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Here, check this: https://apparelinsider.com/bci-shanghai-claims-audit-finding... Just because people and outlets have a different opinion than you doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong, or "propagandists". Some people just have a different opinion, out of their own free will and independent thought, all right?

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes people can judge for themselves. Having said that, I believe I also have some say in how I think I should be judged, and that I am allowed to push back at others' attempts to put me in a box.

I am not "pro-CCP". I only look that way because western mainstream media is so full of anti-China propaganda that anyone who deviates from mainstream opinion look like pro-CCP.

(At this point, some will say "we are only against the CCP, not the Chinese people, and you are wrongly equating China with the CCP". I have written extensively in the past why such rethoric doesn't stand to scuritiny and merely covers up policies that will result in the real suffering of common Chinese people: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29358557)

So no, I'm not a CCP supporter. What I am, is being tired of all the anti-China propaganda that's on the one hand merely biased and prejudiced misrepresentations, and on the other hand a deliberate manufacturing of consent for war. I am tired of my home being constantly misrepresented and villified.

You are right that nobody knows my situation. So I will hereby give you a sworn statement, i.e. you can hold me accountable for it in a court of law if you find me to be lying: my family is not held hostage by Chinese forces, nobody from China is threatening me and my family, and everything I say is entirely my own opinion based on my own independent research without anybody paying me to say these things.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#234

Post by Tsarbomb »

chang1 wrote: post #202
dnautics wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also become increasingly difficult, and in some cases nigh impossible, to avoid items from China. I have the opposite experience. I find it's becoming increasingly easy. I'm finding myself surprised that most things aren't made in china. So far the only thing I haven't been able to get was a waffle maker -- I can do without! Or I should just actually get a $300 waffle maker instead of something stupid that wil…

I picked up USA made waffle iron from C. Palmer Manufacturing. It's super basic and almost 2-3x more expensive than the first few results on Amazon, but it's great! ( https://cpalmermfg.com/waffle-irons.html ) Hope that helps with your waffle making.

Super basic? What more do you need!? It makes waffles!

Also I just saw that they actually sell the individual parts should you need to replace something. This company seems like a real gem.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#235

Post by Shadonototra »

mrweasel wrote: post #139

I really don't understand China, but China also don't care to understand the west one bit. China has zero cultural understand about anything beyond its borders and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at…

> and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both).

yeah, china only exist since 1940, it's a known fact ;)

> We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at home for ever, or some western leader to snap and just tell China to "Go kill whoever you need to get rid of so we can move on".

the west is just waiting to make more profit from its own people, if that means building their factory in china and destroying jobs, families and lives, they'll do it

in the meantime China is already on the far side of the moon and is about to land on the moon with its bases

--

if we want to improve our society, we must stop being blind and repeat what ever propaganda we hear in the west about China

China is doing exactly what we are doing, if you mad at china, be mad at yourself for building this society

China eradicated extreme poverty in its country, what the west did to its people? the US still doesn't have universal healthcare

between the 2 model of society, China's is looking more human and is willing to advance humankind more

i'd rather empower China than what ever the English block is trying to do ;)

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#236

Post by ben_w »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #122
katbyte wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your going to have to clarify, there is no consensus to be found in your link: * The act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue * Deluded or fake awareness. * When you look at the simplest thing and call it racist because you want black people to be victims. Other minorities don't matter. - a black conservative * "Wokeness" occurs when a white, upper-class person pretends to hold opini…

You're wrong, there is a very strong consensus. The first few entries are highly up voted. Take the first 2 as a basic definition or idea of the concept and the 3rd one as an example.

Even if you were correct — and the Wikipedia page shows the pejorative uses becoming common are a fairly recent step of the euphemism treadmill — that doesn’t help resolve @pjc50’s request’s the term be defined in a way that allows someone to pattern match against Intel’s behaviour.

The comment @pjc50 replied to has been flagged, so I can’t be certain exactly what this is about, but the article is literally about a company responding to legal regulation which is itself ostensibly about a genocidal concentration camp.

None of that is either (1) pretension, (2) deluded or fake, (3), about specifically black people.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#237

Post by zivkovicp »

pc86 wrote: post #149
zivkovicp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Even if the intent of such programs might be positive, is there not a risk of them being used to limit, coerce, or change user behaviour? (it wouldn't be the first time) Why is this such an offensive statement?

Social credit is offensive and freedom-limiting by definition . You can't make any small-d-democratic argument in favor of a massive central social credit system because the two are antithetical. A vaccine passport system could turn into something similar, but that's not necessarily a given. It's the slippery slope fallacy taken to the extreme - "because it's possible to imagine a situation in which a vaccine passpor…

> Social credit is offensive and freedom-limiting by definition.

Yes, I agree. I was defending this exact point. The commenter I replied to originally seemed upset about the original comment condemning vax passports.

I guess I didn't word my response clearly enough.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#238

Post by wolverine876 »

lvl100 wrote: post #167
mrweasel wrote: post #139

I really don't understand China, but China also don't care to understand the west one bit. China has zero cultural understand about anything beyond its borders and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at…

US fed the beast that is CCP and now the beast can’t be controlled. Do you fault the beast or the idiot who miscalculated and kept feeding the beast?

The US has never supported the CCP. The US supported trade with China the country and with the people of China, and also their freedom and rights. The trade also benefitted the CCP.

It's long been believed, and many times it's happened, that as countries grow middle classes they become democratic and free (Taiwan, South Korea, etc.). So far the CCP has forstalled that, but despite the trend in disparaging democracy (also in democracies, bizarrely), there's a long history showing that it wasn't a crazy idea and, despite recent setbacks, hardly impossible.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#239

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

mrweasel wrote: post #171
smhenderson wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also become increasingly difficult, and in some cases nigh impossible, to avoid items from China. I'm older and don't need a lot beyond the food and shelter I work for, I have plenty of "stuff". But buying clothing, gifts, electronics, well, the list is long and I won't try to cover everything here, that doesn't have at least part of it's assembly provided by China is not easy to avoid. It's not just people's wa…

Clothing isn’t to bad, most is made in other countries, who are terrible in their own way. For stuff like electronics is impossible, it’s almost all made in China. The only solution I see it keeping stuff for longer or buying used.

For electronics in general and CPUs in particular, "Made in China" is becoming the Clipper Chip for the 2010's/2020's. So yeah, this thing with intel is very disturbing. They're paying for the rope that'll be used to hang all of us with this.
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