Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#411

Post by throwawaylinux » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 12:46 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #236

throwawaylinux wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong, there is a very strong consensus. The first few entries are highly up voted. Take the first 2 as a basic definition or idea of the concept and the 3rd one as an example.

Even if you were correct — and the Wikipedia page shows the pejorative uses becoming common are a fairly recent step of the euphemism treadmill — that doesn’t help resolve @pjc50’s request’s the term be defined in a way that allows someone to pattern match against Intel’s behaviour. The comment @pjc50 replied to has been flagged, so I can’t be certain exactly what this is about, but the article is literally about a c…

I am correct, and most people can deduct and extrapolate and draw from other experiences and observations and don't need everything spelt out for them to "pattern-match".

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by tombh » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 12:55 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #286

tombh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so out of your league here. Whilst you state facts, it is comical to imply that China can hold a candle to the West's atrocities. 18 different border disputes, 18!?? I mean how can you seriously think that's a big number? Just take the American continent itself. Honestly, think about it for a second, what if North America was inhabited by Mandarin-speakers from northern China and South America was inhabited b…

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously here. Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Not only does it take the community further into hell—just what we don't want, and good for nobody—but you actually discredit your own point of view when you post like this. If you happen to be advocating for the truth, or some aspect of it, that means discre…

Thank you for your thoughtful, even-handed and constructive reproval. You clearly took the time to read and digest my comments. I feel embarrassed for doubting my capacity for patience. I will strive to not let your good intentions and efforts go to waste.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by ashwagary » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 12:56 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #251

Wall St. does not care, so these companies can not care. Apple just gave BOE 20% of their OLED business to diversify away from Sanding and LG: Note that BOE is being propped up by the CCP to the tune of $100M a year in losses over the past decade as economic warfare against SK. Manufacturing is where today’s wars are being fought because these people know it gives them the power over those that would complain otherwi…

Many of these large companies dont believe the claims of human rights violations in Xinjiang because the research is shoddy and funded by problematic orgs that have massive ulterior motives (mostly winning large defense contracts) .

Some of you are just as confident of what is going on in Xinjiang, with 0 evidence, as you were of Iraq's WMDs it seems. Ask yourself how much you really know.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by Phileosopher » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #370

ribosometronome wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

I'm saying you have to be respectful of this community and its rules if you want to participate here. That's reasonable: you're getting something, so it's fair for you to give something in return. The HN guidelines explain clearly what you need to give. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Angry internet noun phrases like "peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset" are a distraction from this, not to mention…

I'm not particularly educated on internet conflict except PG's disagreement hierarchy, and personal experience in hacking social expectations on Reddit (e.g., call it the "inoculation" instead of "vax" or "vaccine" to avoid tipping your political hand).

Is there any "best practices" on handling a sticky situation across an insanely diverse absurdly large crowd of individuals in a low-context communication channel? I believe this would be a #1 go-to for absolutely any social network, and I imagine there are a dozen people reading this who are looking for precisely that.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by jollybean » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

Loic wrote: post #82

jollybean wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have a 'human right' to commit crimes, which is why you go to jail in nations that have a legit Justice System. The concentration camps in China are not for people who have committed crimes, they're for people who are of a specific ethnicity, that's it.

My comment refers to the specific abuse with forced slave work conditions for the jailed population in California. Nothing more.

There are no slave working conditions for prisons in California.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by steve76 » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 3:24 AM UTC

pokepim wrote: post #365

lowkey_ wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US currently commits anything close to what's happening in Xinjiang, particularly with the emphasis on it being on a helpless minority of its own citizens, you would have to link to it. Many of us don't think that is happening.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathTol... It’s pure atrocity… Also about the US minority ( I wasn’t writing about that in my earlier comment but since you brought that up) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z So stop denying that systemic racism, racial profiling of minorities and targeted police brutality is not happening in the US. Did you vote for Trump? Because that would expla…

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by steve76 » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

ScouterRich wrote: post #376

pokepim wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathTol... It’s pure atrocity… Also about the US minority ( I wasn’t writing about that in my earlier comment but since you brought that up) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z So stop denying that systemic racism, racial profiling of minorities and targeted police brutality is not happening in the US. Did you vote for Trump? Because that would expla…

Nobody is saying that other countries haven't done horrible things. That's a separate issue, unless your argument is that it is okay for the CCP (not the Chinese people, this is political, not racial) to commit crimes against humanity. The response to the possible horrors in Xinjiang, and Tibet, should not be countered with whataboutisms. Don't we all want everyone to have a quality life free of suffering and abuse b…

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by clove » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 5:39 AM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #18

It's interesting to see that people on both sides are angry -- for different reasons. People on western Internet are angry at Intel for having issued an apology. People on Chinese Internet are angry because they view it as a non-apology, i.e. Intel still goes ahead with the ban. I see people -- including Chinese diaspora -- calling for banning Intel.

Hey, my favorite CCP shill, FooBarWidget: What is your official stance on Xi's new chair?

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by chloerei » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #170

chloerei wrote: post #59

As a Chinese, I think the logic of certain Western countries is ridiculous. Because Xinjiang’s human rights situation is considered to be problematic, so Xinjiang’s companies are banned. As an analogy, can I think that the human rights situation of African Americans is terrible, so I need to ban companies that employ African Americans? These bans will only make the living conditions of minorities worse, because they…

The situation of African Americans nowadays is nowhere near comparable. The issue are the “jail looking” camps which are officially “education centers”. Forced labour happens there, which is basically slavery. Western companies don’t want to be associated with slavery. It’s hard enough when people are paid almost nothing, but here they are literally not paid and obliged to work. The living conditions of people in the…

When these allegations first appeared, I waited cautiously for evidence. Maybe something happened around me that I didn't know?

When the BBC interviewed Xinjiang but failed to find evidence, and then only used video filters to render fear, I questioned the authenticity of these allegations.

Later, the "evidence" displayed by the Western media had a lot of traces of forgery. After that, I didn't believe these allegations even more.

It's a pity that people who have been immersed in Western media propaganda for a long time have been implanted with a concept: China is bad. This makes any news that is bad for China seem to be true. Whoever says China is good is the CCP propagandist.

But people living in China know that Western media reports are very biased.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

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Post by echaozh » Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 6:28 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #407

joshuajill wrote: post #76

Interestingly, small companies like FairPhone work to improve their suppliers' labor conditions. Intel of all the companies is in a position to do the same or more. However they choose to whitewash their brand by blaming the chinese government of their lack of care. Their hypocrisy backfired, and they let China win on all counts. Ironically they ended up helping whitewash the chinese government.

A quick search shows as of 2019, Fairphone's suppliers included the Chinese company O-Film [0], which at the time was using forced labor from Xinjiang. They probably had no way of knowing this; Apple [1] was burned by the same firm. The company transported Uyghur victims to a factory southern China (Jiangxi in the Bloomberg article), so Xinjiang wasn't indicated as part of the supply chain anywhere. How much actual i…

It's really absurd to call any labor performed by Uygur inside China forced labor. Are Uygurs so lazy to deny any labor? Or can they not prefer working in factories than, say, farming or herding cattles?

As to the ideology and gratitude part, I think people may alter their ideology if they so choose. After all, the Romans switched to Christianity, and slavery was once legal in the States. And people should be able to express gratitude to people giving them a chance to work for a better life. Even now, people from abroad are moving into the States to work, are they all forced labor?