Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#371

Post by jollybean » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #42

jollybean wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. Instead of thinking about it like a 'Orwellian State' - think of it more like an Orwellian State that could go 'off' at anytime. Note that citizens are concerned about their prosperity - as long as growth is happening and money comes in - they are content. But they are also ultra nationalist and ultra ethnocentric to the point where…

> Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing.…

Imperialism is different than Nationalism and nobody is exempt from it.

But China is like the West in the 1930s with the level of direct control of communications and propaganda, not allowing alternative narratives to form.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#372

Post by quacked » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #366

mensetmanusman wrote: post #251

Wall St. does not care, so these companies can not care. Apple just gave BOE 20% of their OLED business to diversify away from Sanding and LG: Note that BOE is being propped up by the CCP to the tune of $100M a year in losses over the past decade as economic warfare against SK. Manufacturing is where today’s wars are being fought because these people know it gives them the power over those that would complain otherwi…

You can't expect an independent company to take on a nation, the US and other Western governments either need to admit they don't care about human rights or commit to flat out banning trade with China People talk about potential war with China without realizing China has been waging war on the West for decades, China's military doctrine counts economic warfare as equal to kinetic(traditional) warfare. These state bac…

Totally agree. In addition, billions of dollars every year are spent on various propaganda wars through advertising firms, political campaigns, and policy groups to convince people that the current state of manufacturing and nationality in the world is both inevitable and desirable.

Forget about the trillions of dollars--the real casualties are social stability, self-sufficiency, and the overall individual strength of the "west". The grandchildren of the people who invented the modern supply chain are wholly incapable of rebuilding it or in most cases even understanding it. How many people involved in the "national discourse" know what a kilowatt is, or have any idea what the country imports and why?

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#373

Post by elihu » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

dash2 wrote: post #84

elihu wrote: post #58

> "Intel (INTC.O) recently published what it described as an annual letter to suppliers, dated December, that it had been 'required to ensure that its supply chain does not use any labour or source goods or services from the Xinjiang region', following restrictions imposed by 'multiple governments'." As policies go, that one seems kind of clumsy. Assuming for the sake of argument that Uighurs are being used for force…

It's not that simple. If you're competing with local forced labour, your own wages will be artificially driven down. Unfairness spreads.

That's a good point.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#374

Post by jollybean » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #354

whodunnit wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the U.S. incarcerate people based on their religion?

Does it matter? A pretext is a pretext. In fact, there have been a great many Americans railroaded into prison for, essentially, being Muslim, for refusing to try to entice other Muslims to engage in attempts at domestic terrorism so that they can be imprisoned, just to burnish somebody's resume. But mostly black people are railroaded into prison for being black. Do you imagine that is less bad?

"A pretext is a pretext."

????

No.

A 'crime' is a legitimate pretext for putting someone in jail.

Being of a certain ethnicity is not a reason for putting someone in jail.

I can't believe I am reading this.

And your statements about 'putting Muslims in jail for being Muslim' and But mostly 'black people are railroaded into prison for being black' are completely false. People are put in jail for crimes, whereupon the justice system in some cases may not be fully equally applied and FYI if anything the Justice System is heavy in the US to the point whereupon supposedly privileged group face nearly equally excessive oversight from the system - which is altogether a different problem.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#375

Post by gentleman11 » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #31

Apple lobbied the US government *against* the anti-concentration camp labor bill that Intel is apologizing for in the OP, https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-u... ( "Apple is lobbying against a bill aimed at stopping forced labor in China" )

This is why we need the pine phone and librem 5 so badly

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#376

Post by ScouterRich » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

pokepim wrote: post #365

lowkey_ wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US currently commits anything close to what's happening in Xinjiang, particularly with the emphasis on it being on a helpless minority of its own citizens, you would have to link to it. Many of us don't think that is happening.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathTol... It’s pure atrocity… Also about the US minority ( I wasn’t writing about that in my earlier comment but since you brought that up) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z So stop denying that systemic racism, racial profiling of minorities and targeted police brutality is not happening in the US. Did you vote for Trump? Because that would expla…

Nobody is saying that other countries haven't done horrible things. That's a separate issue, unless your argument is that it is okay for the CCP (not the Chinese people, this is political, not racial) to commit crimes against humanity. The response to the possible horrors in Xinjiang, and Tibet, should not be countered with whataboutisms. Don't we all want everyone to have a quality life free of suffering and abuse by others?

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#377

Post by jollybean » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #269

Dylan16807 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You earned the prison. Is it somehow better to remove the option and just lock you up? Negative prison time, applied to a legitimate sentence, should never count as forcing.

You pretend to be unaware of false arrest, fabricated evidence, bad representation, and over-sentencing of underclass people. US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly.

"US citizens are not uniquely criminal"

US citizens are absolutely uniquely criminal.

The violent gun murder rate in the US is 5x what it is European countries. Those are stats based on deaths, not criminal prosecutions.

The number of 'high speed chases' etc. is considerably higher.

In some 'high crime / poverty' areas of the US, the amount of crime again is multiples of those of other nations.

Moreover, the US has the right to put people in prison for crimes in a different manner than say Sweden, who might only have someone in jail for 4 years for murder.

China is putting Uyghurs in jail for their ethnicity, not for any crimes committed, so the issue is moot.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#378

Post by jollybean » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #350

Dylan16807 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there…

Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evide…

" because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them."

This is not unsubstantiated.

Moreover, it's upside down:

The economic labour output from US prisons is negligible and has no material effect on the GPD or industrial basis.

... and those prisoners, were they outside of the prison systems, in 'regular jobs' - would add tremendously more to the GDP in terms of productivity.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#379

Post by killerdark » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #370

ribosometronome wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

I'm saying you have to be respectful of this community and its rules if you want to participate here. That's reasonable: you're getting something, so it's fair for you to give something in return. The HN guidelines explain clearly what you need to give. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Angry internet noun phrases like "peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset" are a distraction from this, not to mention…

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#380

Post by tadasv » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #207

pjmlp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can start by not buying anything Made In China as much as possible, however I fail to ever see that happening, as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets.

> as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets. I realized the other day that if I saw a tray of "Made in China" utensils and a comparable tray of "Made in Africa/Europe/USA" utensils of roughly the same quality I'd happily pay a dollar or two extra, no questions asked for the ones that doesn't originate in China these days. I ended up not buying it at all since there was no alternative that wa…

Buy https://stores.balticvalue.com/products/electric-potato-grat...

They ship it straight from lithuania. I got one recently myself. Made it Lithuania also.

Then use this device to make Kugelis.