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Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

reuters.com

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#351

Post by pokepim »

ribosometronome wrote: post #330
dang wrote: post #318

All: if you want to comment on HN on a divisive topic like this, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make sure you're commenting in the intended spirit: curious, thoughtful, respectful conversation across differences . Note, for example, this guideline—we really mean it: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " Many users can't se…

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

So should we start criticizing every american company, person and entity in every thread concerning anything american since US government kills innocent civilians on an even bigger scale than Chinese government? Because you know that is exactly happening.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#352

Post by hungryhobo »

hker wrote: post #342
FooBarWidget wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple. For example BCI performed multiple audits since 2012 and hasn't found a single case of forced labor.[1][2] Despite that, they've pulled back from Xinjiang. Companies don't want to deal with Xinjiang just so they can avoid controversies, regardless of actual facts. Also, the Xinjiang Forced Labor Prevention Act is based on the maxim of guilty-until-proven-innocent. There is no way to co…

You misrepresented BCI. And there are other independent sources showing forced labor in Xinjiang [1][2], regardless of what BCI Shanghai said. BCI Shanghai is contradicting the BCI headquarter [3], and BCI Shanghai is not credible on this matter [4]. While there are plenty of authentic reports, and investigations documented by independent research groups, the BCI Shanghai’s statement to deny the forced labor in the r…

is bitterwinter.org a reliable source? or perhaps we should dig deeper, is adrian zenz, whom most of the xinjiang genocide claims originated from, a reliable source?

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-...

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#353

Post by lowkey_ »

pokepim wrote: post #351
ribosometronome wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

So should we start criticizing every american company, person and entity in every thread concerning anything american since US government kills innocent civilians on an even bigger scale than Chinese government? Because you know that is exactly happening.

If the US currently commits anything close to what's happening in Xinjiang, particularly with the emphasis on it being on a helpless minority of its own citizens, you would have to link to it. Many of us don't think that is happening.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#354

Post by ncmncm »

whodunnit wrote: post #280
ncmncm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US incarcerates many, many more than China, as a much higher fraction of its population. Probably at least as many are on no better pretext, and are similarly exploited for prison labor. Thus, a boycott-US movement would be (also!) justified, but better would be to check on practices and boycott specific companies that do not take particular care not to rely on prison labor in any country. That is more work, but…

Does the U.S. incarcerate people based on their religion?

Does it matter? A pretext is a pretext.

In fact, there have been a great many Americans railroaded into prison for, essentially, being Muslim, for refusing to try to entice other Muslims to engage in attempts at domestic terrorism so that they can be imprisoned, just to burnish somebody's resume.

But mostly black people are railroaded into prison for being black. Do you imagine that is less bad?

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#355

Post by Dylan16807 »

ncmncm wrote: post #350
Dylan16807 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there…

Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evide…

I never said anything about wanting a high incarceration rate.

There can be other reasons for harsh laws. Don't be so weirdly absolute. If a country does something wrong that doesn't mean it necessarily has the one specific motivation you're mad at and no other.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#356

Post by eitland »

kgran wrote: post #252
eitland wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets. I realized the other day that if I saw a tray of "Made in China" utensils and a comparable tray of "Made in Africa/Europe/USA" utensils of roughly the same quality I'd happily pay a dollar or two extra, no questions asked for the ones that doesn't originate in China these days. I ended up not buying it at all since there was no alternative that wa…

It seems that pure Lithuanian air cans are all sold out. As an alternative, you can buy Lithuanian cow dung in a can here: https://dovanusalis.lt/lietuviskas-karvutes-sudas-skardineje I couldn't see an English translation of the website, so you have to translate things or guess a little to navigate there.

I guess customs aren't too happy to allow cow dung across the borders, but otherwise this is brilliant: at the moment I want to buy Lithuanian cow dung more than buying anything from China :-)

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#357

Post by alex77456 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #264
FooBarWidget wrote: post #18

It's interesting to see that people on both sides are angry -- for different reasons. People on western Internet are angry at Intel for having issued an apology. People on Chinese Internet are angry because they view it as a non-apology, i.e. Intel still goes ahead with the ban. I see people -- including Chinese diaspora -- calling for banning Intel.

Personally, I'm angry at Intel for not having actual convictions. It looks like they're doing the ban, not because they actually believe that there's slave labor in Xinjiang, but because their stockholders will be mad if they don't. And they issued the apology, not because they realized that there is no slave labor in Xinjiang, but because they don't want China angry at them. They're trying to just get on with being…

There is no reason to expect human-like behaviour and traits from organisations.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#358

Post by quocanh »

cnlevy wrote: post #96
zohch wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That there is any controversy in this statement is insane, but I would be very wary of ever making this statement non-anonymously, because I know I'm more likely than not to be cancelled for it. China has mastered the manipulation of the west's successor ideology better than those in the west that instituted it.

cancel culture doesn't originate in China. It's an evolution of the western idea of equality and individualism taken to an extreme

China is famously very accepting of all ideas and would never ban or ostracize members of its own society for perspectives that disagree with the majority's belief.

Yep. Definitely a western thing.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#359

Post by pokepim »

joshuajill wrote: post #89
einpoklum wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surprisingly, there are a lot of strikes, labour issues, and general unrest in China. It only surprises people if they consider China as one of: * A harmonious socialist utopia, or * A totalitarian dystopia unfortunately, the US government and mainstream news media are trying to paint China as the latter of the two. ---- Also, irrespective of the extent of nationalism in China, western or US imperialism is a thing.…

Yes the US had (has) a part in separatist movement in China and it spelled disaster. https://consortiumnews.com/2021/04/08/us-funded-uyghur-activ...

Wtf, so the Uyghur movement in the US is basically right wing, pro gun, pro trump organization? Also seems to be aligning with some qanon islamophobes as well. The irony.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#360

Post by hker »

hungryhobo wrote: post #352
hker wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misrepresented BCI. And there are other independent sources showing forced labor in Xinjiang [1][2], regardless of what BCI Shanghai said. BCI Shanghai is contradicting the BCI headquarter [3], and BCI Shanghai is not credible on this matter [4]. While there are plenty of authentic reports, and investigations documented by independent research groups, the BCI Shanghai’s statement to deny the forced labor in the r…

is bitterwinter.org a reliable source? or perhaps we should dig deeper, is adrian zenz, whom most of the xinjiang genocide claims originated from, a reliable source? https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-...

> is bitterwinter.org a reliable source?

The bitterwinter.org article, which is clearly labeled as Op-Ed:

1. reports that BCI Shanghai contradicts BCI headquarter (which you can independently verify, as there are other news sources supporting this, such as the SCMP article I just added).

2. argues that the local branch (BCI Shanghai) could be under pressure for operating in China (the quoted text above).

If you don’t buy their reasoning (2 above), you can at least agree with the HKFP reporting that the local Hugo Boss Chinese branch contradicted the Hugo Boss global headquarter without authorization, and make your judgement call for why.

> or perhaps we should dig deeper...

You may want to read these sources [1][2], which I just added to my original comment and do not rely on Adrian Zenz.

> is adrian zenz, whom most of the xinjiang genocide claims originated from, a reliable source?

With those other verifiable sources [1][2], we can ignore the straw man question of whether Adrian Zenz is a reliable source.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/solar-chin... "Solar industry’s ties to China’s Xinjiang region raise specter of forced labor"

[2]: https://www.shu.ac.uk/helena-kennedy-centre-international-ju... "In Broad Daylight: Uyghur Forced Labour and Global Solar Supply Chains"

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