Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

tiremeetsroad.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 383 posts

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#81

Post by rvz »

knorker wrote: post #74
rvz wrote: post #6

Unsurprising and seen here: [0] A text book definition of a backdoor. It is still not your car. It is still Tesla's. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26512855

No, if you don't pay for it then it's the bank's car. It's like saying "the super stole my TV!!" when actually the super just let the police in with a search warrant, and they took the TV you stole down to the station.

Tesla still has remote access to the cars its has sold and can unlock them if the authorities request them to do so. If that is not a backdoor I don't know what is.

Evidently, the car isn't yours, even though you have paid for it. Tesla still owns it.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#82

Post by simonh »

jemfinch wrote: post #72
simonh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I meant when the repossession order is issued.

This isn't how it works in the US. In the US, the car is titled to the bank until the loan is paid in full, then the bank transfers the title to you.

Ah, my apologies. I'm a Brit.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#83

Post by alkonaut »

LightG wrote: post #24
greatpatton wrote: post #15

Not much into US law, but can someone tell us what is happening if you had personal possession of value in your car?

This is my problem with it. Not that payments shouldn't be kept up to date. But that it moves decision making on the issue to a corporate entity a million miles away and you can bet there won't be any accounting for personal situations, or admin errors, or anything else. Your car will just be gone. Sorry, f@ck tesla on this.

If this wasn't preceded by months of angry letters explaining when and why the security would be repossessed, then yes. Shitty. However, if the owner was made aware that the vehicle would be reposessed, then obviously there isn't much else the lender can do. The owner has (hopefully) already dodged several opportunities to simply drop the vehicle off.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#84

Post by knorker »

fxtentacle wrote: post #54
shadowgovt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is legally the owner when a car is repossessed? I'd say autonomous vehicles are pro-social machines. They will, in general, act to follow the rules established, ideally more often than a "dumb" car operated by a human. Given how many traffic accidents are human caused, that's sort of the point of the entire exercise.

I would argue that before it is successfully repossessed, the old person is still the owner. They'd also be the one liable if something goes wrong. So we have disconnected the liabilities of ownership from the advantages of ownership. In the past, this type of disconnect has led to companies exploiting it for profit.

I would not argue against it being yours before reposession. But whose car is it after a legal repossession has started?

I would argue that once the repossession clause in the contract has been activated (criteria has been met and bank decides to exercise the right) then from that decision forwards the bank is now the owner.

Possession is not 9/10 of the law if a contract says control reverts to bank under a condition that's clearly been violated.

This is not a game where if just hide for X time then contracts expire. It's not a game of tag, where "it doesn't count" until a reposession has been completed "fairly". You don't need to give someone a fair chance to avoid the consequences in a contract.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#85

Post by scottlilly »

sschueller wrote: post #57

Will Mercedes or another brand clone a key for the repo man without a court order?

Yes.

I was a repo man in the 1980s. When we'd get the repossession paperwork from the bank, we'd also get a copy of the car's title. We'd take that paperwork into a dealership and they would cut us duplicate keys.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#86

Post by hungryforcodes »

ezfe wrote: post #77
selfhoster11 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. The car has a capability to lock you out, and all it takes is for someone to activate that capability. I don't want that in a car.

Spoiler Alert: this applies to most new cars

Does it?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#88

Post by falcolas »

themitigating wrote: post #62
simonh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's quite right, you own the vehicle legally and you owe the bank the loan. However as soon as a repossession takes place the legal title to the vehicle does change.

If you finance a car through a bank the bank owns the car, they have the title (US).

No (or rather, I have never seen this where I live in the US), they have a lien on the title. You still have the title.

Source: Trying to get a bank to remove the lien after it’s fully paid off can be a real source of frustration.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#89

Post by maxerickson »

themitigating wrote: post #62
simonh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's quite right, you own the vehicle legally and you owe the bank the loan. However as soon as a repossession takes place the legal title to the vehicle does change.

If you finance a car through a bank the bank owns the car, they have the title (US).

My credit union has a lien on my car. The title is in my name.

I guess it's different mostly in name though, they still have strong rights to the vehicle.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#90

Post by refurb »

jemfinch wrote: post #72
simonh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I meant when the repossession order is issued.

This isn't how it works in the US. In the US, the car is titled to the bank until the loan is paid in full, then the bank transfers the title to you.

Is that state specific? I recall some banks holding liens against titles instead?

I recall buying a used car where the bank lien had to be removed prior to transfer.

Post reply on HN