Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

tiremeetsroad.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 383 posts

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#21

Post by jcims »

Ekaros wrote: post #10
aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

I suppose it really depends on exact legal contract. Is the financing that is loan against the vehicle and it is owned by the user. Or is it essentially rented. And in first case even with court order there is good question about other creditors...

(probably wrong statement follows) In the US, title to the vehicle usually remains in the hands of the creditor until it’s paid off.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#22

Post by parsimo2010 »

aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

In the US this is legal. Banks are authorized to repossess property if you’re late on a payment^. Private companies are allowed to participate in repossession as long as they don’t break any other laws. Tesla didn’t break into the owner’s house to steal their passwords or keys, they didn’t assault the owner. All they did was take his car. They verified that they were taking the correct car. Since the repossession was being carried out on behalf of a bank, there was no theft. This is completely legal. If you don’t want a car company to assist a bank with repossession, don’t get a car with remote access features- which pretty much means an old car.

^There are rules on how late you have to be though- it’s not like they are taking your car after you’re 1 day late for the first time. The required amount of lateness depends on the state. And they are only allowed to take property that was used to secure the loan. In the case of a car loan that is usually the car itself.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#23

Post by _Microft »

causi wrote: post #3

Should this be illegal? No, probably not. Is this the future I want to live in? Also no.

> Is this the future I want to live in?

For me neither. As much as I admire Musk for being the driving force behind the progress that his companies are making for electric mobility and especially space launch but a guy who fetishizes a dystopian cyberpunk future and works on hooking up brains to computers might have slightly different vision for the future than you and me.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#24

Post by LightG »

greatpatton wrote: post #15

Not much into US law, but can someone tell us what is happening if you had personal possession of value in your car?

This is my problem with it.

Not that payments shouldn't be kept up to date. But that it moves decision making on the issue to a corporate entity a million miles away and you can bet there won't be any accounting for personal situations, or admin errors, or anything else. Your car will just be gone.

Sorry, f@ck tesla on this.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#25

Post by Joker_vD »

matwood wrote: post #13
aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

It's not even that interesting. Owner doesn't pay bill on an item being used as collateral. Said item is repossessed. I hope the repo person realizes the future will need that type of job less and less.

Nope, it won't. Ask anyone who ever lent money and they'll tell you that lending is actually the easiest part, now getting repaid is where most of the work goes into. Heck, you probably yourself can remember an acquaintance of yours who once borrowed figurative $20 from you and never returned them.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#27

Post by ghusto »

matwood wrote: post #13
aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

It's not even that interesting. Owner doesn't pay bill on an item being used as collateral. Said item is repossessed. I hope the repo person realizes the future will need that type of job less and less.

I think the surprise or even incredulity people over here in the EU have is not to do with "You don't pay for your stuff, we take the stuff back" (I think we're all familiar with the concept of paying for things), it's to do with how the seller remotely took actions on the item.

It's a bit like not keeping up your mortgage repayments, and the bank remotely locking you out (or in?) your house — except it's a bit worse, because the mortgage provider wouldn't have to use GPS to track where you and your house are. Perhaps that's not a shocking idea in the USA, but I think it is in the EU. I'm not for or against, just explaining where the shock factor is coming from here.

Now for my own opinion: The header here shouldn't be "Make sure you keep up your repayments", it should be "Don't buy stupid shit you don't need, can't afford, and is controlled by someone else".

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#28

Post by aneutron »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #22
aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

In the US this is legal. Banks are authorized to repossess property if you’re late on a payment^. Private companies are allowed to participate in repossession as long as they don’t break any other laws. Tesla didn’t break into the owner’s house to steal their passwords or keys, they didn’t assault the owner. All they did was take his car. They verified that they were taking the correct car. Since the repossession was…

Thanks very much for the answer. I assumed that it would have to go through the judiciary, but I am surprised to see it's not the case.

It does make sense, especially if it's not abusive (e.g. one month behind equals reposession)

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#29

Post by Joker_vD »

Jaruzel wrote: post #12

The main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you…

> If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs

From what limited knowledge of law enforcement I have (and it's very little, I admit), it's reversed: everyone by default is legally obliged to assist a law officer, on their request, to enforce the law and order; there are some limits beyond which explicit court orders are required, but those limits are rather broad.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#30

Post by arendtio »

LightG wrote: post #20

Holy sh!t ... reason 47 to not buy a Tesla.

Is 'buy' the correct verb in this context? I mean, if you would buy it in the traditional sense you wouldn't have any monthly payments you could miss and you would actually own the car. But this case seems a bit different.
Post reply on HN