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Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

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Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#371

Post by krf »

neffy wrote: post #227
underscore_ku wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are already NATO battalions in Latvia and Lithuania. Albania, the Czech Republic, Iceland, Italy, Montenegro, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain contribute to the Canadian-led battlegroup in Latvia; Belgium, the Czech Republic, Iceland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Norway provide contributions to the German-led battlegroup in Lithuania; France and Iceland contribute to the UK-led battlegroup in Estonia; an…

Nope... no battalions in Iceland.

Perhaps the comment was edited, but there is no wording in the current post that states battlegroups are in Iceland just that Iceland contributes to battlegroups in other countries.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#372

Post by skinkestek »

aa-jv wrote: post #22
rich_sasha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of countries heavily dependent on Russian gas, Germany being one. I get it, from Spain it looks very different, but this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_in_the_European_energy_... shows how many countries depend on Russian gas. This should have been scary to Europe for at least a decade now, but sadly wasn't.

Europeans don't hate Russians as much as Americans do - probably because they've actually got Russians visiting and know that Russia doesn't really represent the threat that the American military-industrial complex needs you to believe is real in order to justify their trillion dollar misadventures and further subjugation of NATO member states into puppetry. In fact, a lot of Europeans would like to see peace made wi…

Seriously:

> Europeans don't hate Russians as much as Americans do -

I seriously doubt Americans really hates Russia, and at least not more than any eastern country who has been crushed by USSR for some decades.

> probably because they've actually got Russians visiting and know that Russia doesn't really represent the threat that the American military-industrial complex needs you to believe is real in order to justify their trillion dollar misadventures and further subjugation of NATO member states into puppetry.

Seriously, again. We want peace with Russia, but don't pretend it is the West who creates this situation.

> In fact, a lot of Europeans would like to see peace made with Russia.

Yep, but hopefully we remember what happened how much we got out of Britains deal with Hitler. A deal with Russia must always be backed by power.

> A Europe united with Russia would be the one superpower even China could do little to contain ..

The only advantage China really has on us is ruthlessness.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#373

Post by myth_drannon »

adrr wrote: post #224
myth_drannon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did Ukraine really had nukes? Physically yes, but not operationally. "Ukraine had the world's third-largest nuclear weapons stockpile,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical, but not operational, control. Russia alone controlled the codes needed to operate" It's like saying Turkey has nukes...Does it? Or Turkey hosts US's strategic bombers armed with nuclear bombs.

Ukraine had the people and means to make them operational. It also currently has the means to create new nuclear weapons with uranium mines, research reactors and nuclear physics expertise. Also expertise to create ICBMs. Russia has ensured that no nuclear nation will ever disarm because treaties are just a piece a paper and world will just sit back and do nothing when it is violated.

That's just a pure speculation, could or could not. Ukraine is a semi-failed state with an ongoing civil war(and was for decades), it can't create anything new unfortunately. Improve some old Soviet technology maybe, but ICBMs... The discussions should not be about weapons but on how Ukraine can pull itself from the current hole it dug in.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#374

Post by pydry »

qwytw wrote: post #266
scottLobster wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Border security (same reason the Soviets held onto their gains), paranoia, and Putin needing an external enemy to galvanize his power. Plus they've taken the Crimea and effectively a large chunk of Ukraine with little effective pushback. They may believe that Europe and US lack the will for harsh punishments, particularly with Germany (among others) reliant on Russian natural gas. There are also a lot of ethnic Russi…

Has China invaded Taiwan yet? From a more cynical, pragmatic "realpolitik" perspective one can view Russian actions in Ukraine as largely defensive. From the collapse of the Soviet Union Ukraine largely functioned as a semi-protectorate of Russia, even before 2014 Russian probably had significantly more troops stationed in Crimea than Ukrainians themselves since their black sea fleet is stationed there. After the eve…

They don't want a conflict on their border. The west wants a conflict.

Stirring up ethnic border wars is a cheap way of sapping the strength of regional powers. The British Empire honed it to a fine art.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#375

Post by Viliam1234 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #260
bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact no European country should be OK with that Russia's brutal annexations in the east following WWII pretty much assured that all European countries were, in fact OK with it.

WWII was the result of Germany trying to take over the continent. That led to Eastern Europe being invaded/liberated by the USSR and Western Europe being invaded/liberated by the US. It's not correct to say that all Western European countries were/are OK with US power and presence. The major powers were divided on that. Germany obviously did not really have any say, France did not want the US to stay, the UK thought…

> WWII was the result of Germany trying to take over the continent.

Germany, and also that other country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#376

Post by pandaman »

varjag wrote: post #255
mercy_dude wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair but you are not arguing why the events are not to be thought of being correlated. So if the natural gas deal with Germany is settled in EUR that seems to be a good enough reason to piss US off and start a proxy war. Why is the momentum for getting Ukraine to EU so strong now?

EUR (unlike say China's RMB, Cuban pesos or whatever they have in NK for money) is a freely convertible currency. Can you explain the mechanism by which settlements in Euros undermine anything, such that three (mutually confrontational) US administrations engage into conspiracy against Mother Russia? (For the reference, the old pipeline gas was also paid for in Euros) As to momentum for Ukraine ascension to NATO, I w…

"Currency conversion" is not free. If a deal is to be settled in the USD then it means that the buyer is likely to acquire USD directly (by selling something for USD or taking loans in USD) and the seller is likely to spend the USD, skipping any conversion and strengthening the USD. Likewise, if the deal is to be settled in EUR the same is applied to the EUR and strengthens the EUR while weakening the USD.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#377

Post by nzmsv »

danlugo92 wrote: post #328
treme wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound pretty naïve. Putin holding on to power is likely the best outcome for the world vs unknown power vacuum & chaos that will ensue after Putin's gone.

A peaceful transition can happen, like when the USSR dissolved. Of course I wouldn't like a power vacuum in a country with nukes.

There are a lot of Russians who don't support Putin yet will fight to make sure another one of these peaceful transitions doesn't happen in their home. Rampant crime, addictions, brain drain, internal wars - no thank you, please keep this peaceful transition.

I think Egypt was the last place that was gifted one of these. I hear it went well for them /s

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#378

Post by hourislate »

everybodyknows wrote: post #351
hourislate wrote: post #292

For anyone who thinks Europe can challenge Russia on the battle field ...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some... This doesn't mean things can't change but currently Russia could roll over Europe in a week unless the USA intervenes.

That article is ten years old.

Yeah and what makes you think NATO in Europe is any different? They still under spend. I'm not a supporter of Russian aggression but the reality is Europe is a joke when it comes to NATO. The only folks today that are fighting for Western Ideals are the Ukrainians and the German cucks block any support anyone wants to give them.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#379

Post by nzmsv »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #152
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is Russia a warmongering nation? I'd say most Russians hate war. Maybe more than anyone else because they were the nation that suffered most casualties in World War II. An emergence of a peaceful leader and friendly reactions with the West would mark the beginning of a completely new era in the history of our civilization. And would help both Russia and the West in the face of increasing Chinese power.

The individual people probably not, but the politicians at the top seem pretty obviously willing to engage in conflicts. Just think about Crimea for a second - when was the last time you saw a country actually annex territory? That is some old school shit (pardon my french) and a real shock to the IR community. Plus their actions in Georgia on a super flimsy pretext, troops in Moldova, etc. I'd say they're pretty war…

Annex territory? Turkey, NATO member, 1974 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus)

Your parents were alive during that time, so it's not that old school.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#380

Post by nzmsv »

jmacd wrote: post #9

I think we in the west need something like a 'doctrine of the foregone conclusion'. Often things are very obvious, even notorious, but because we do not want to face the eventuality, we do things like negotiate or perseverate our denials all while the situation escalates. If NATO and the west are ready and willing to defend Ukraine (I suspect we are not), in which case a significant increase in our own presence would…

Isn't this "doctrine of the foregone conclusion" exactly how the west operates? Not too long ago there was an invasion of Iraq over some WMDs that unnamed "intelligence sources" were absolutely certain were about to be used for some horrible things. These were never found. Now these same "intelligence services" are the only source of information that Russia is preparing for an invasion. If you were Russian, hearing this would make you very scared indeed (and it does).
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