Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine • Hacker News Board

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#261

Post by varjag » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #247

varjag wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often have no appreciation of scale. Russia has more armor than NATO has Javelins and loitering munitions.

Most of which are pushing 50 years old. Russia has a lot of military assets, and has developed some advanced capabilities, but has not been able to field them in any meaningful quantity since the fall of the Soviet Union. The same story is true with their air superiority / denial capabilities. They have advanced weapons, but not enough of them to go toe-to-toe with NATO and the bulk of their military is obsolete Sovi…

Most of NATO equipment is not exactly sparkling new either, am not sure what that proves. Does it not count if the battletank that runs you over is from 1980s?

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#262

Post by aa-jv » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #215

aa-jv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Austria, I know a lot of Ukraine and Georgian expats who don't have the issue with Russia that they do with the USA. These are just not vocal enough to warrant attention in Western media, nor does it serve the purpose of giving the American-led NATO powers a new purpose for existence.

You moved to Austria from Australia less than 3 months ago (if you're not lying about that also). Austria is 1/1,000 Ukrainian and 1/3,000 Georgian, and the younger crowd is even further US aligned. Please tell me more about how you've made 10,000 friends in 2 months to statistically avg. knowing a lot of them. You don't know "a lot of Ukraine and Georgian expats." I have family from both and have been all over Georg…

Your analysis is faulty, I've lived in Austria for 15 years and have extensive experience working professionally in the Balkan states - Kosovo, Serbia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Czech Republic. I've also lived in the USA for many decades prior to moving to Europe, and I don't have a single nationalist bone in my body.

I can count the # of pro-NATO/pro-USA bootlickers in my professional circles on one hand, whereas the people who are categorically opposed to America's continued committing of crimes against humanity cannot be so simply counted. You seem to be aligned with the "might makes right" theory of geopolitics, but this is not the case among the people of the states I'm familiar with. Most of them want the criminal human rights violations to end - on all sides - but are not so stupid to ignore the American side, just because its shiny and plastic.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#263

Post by Redoubts » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

ogogmad wrote: post #160

aa-jv wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how peace could be made Its certainly not going to be possible for as long as member citizens of Western nations think they have the moral authority to tell Russia what to do .. they really, really don't have that moral authority, especially given the last twenty years of massacring of innocent people that the West continues to sweep under the rug and justify with bleats .. The Russian people know how m…

Look up whataboutism, the "tu quoque" fallacy, and the fallacy of moral equivalence.

On the flip side, it would be nice if you would stop lynching negroes.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#264

Post by oceanplexian » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

georgecmu wrote: post #159

lnsru wrote: post #27

There is only way for country’s protection and it’s Israel’s way where whole country is also an army. Especially for countries near unfriendly countries like Russia in this submission. Because all the treaties and documents signed by politicians are absolutely worthless. Ukraine got rid of all the Soviet nuclear weapons and got lots of promises: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Secur... Now they…

For a much more evenhanded -- and hence rare -- take, you may wish to read this very recent commentary from Jack Matlock, the last US Ambassador to the USSR[1]. He has the advantage of being an observer who is (a) very informed and (b) disinterested. The following paragraphs are worth reading, even if you fundamentally disagree with this viewpoint[2]. Russia is extremely sensitive about foreign military activity adja…

Thanks for the one sensible take. You can bet that the USA would invade if say, Mexico or Canada decided to engage in a NATO-like alliance with China or Russia. In fact, you only have to look as far as Cuba, a mere 90 miles from the continental USA; a country the USA failed to invade in violation of international law during the Bay of Pigs invasion in the 1960s. It is pretty rich when Western countries whine about sovereignty when they would do exactly the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#265

Post by Balero » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #162

tomsto wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However what does detract from this point somewhat is that this neglects relative purchasing power. At purchasing power parity, Russia's military spending is actually higher than perhaps people realise.

Yes! And their defense industrial base is massive, not only are they just spending for internal use, but they also are making improvements constantly because they sell these weapons abroad (e.g. S-400's which piss of America to no end) https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/26/erdogan-turkey-coul...

This all comes with a time limit however. Because of the demographics of Russia, they will not be able to keep this military industrial base up for more than a couple of decades. It is really a case that Russia are currently at their strongest militarily (unless something drastic changes).

With this in mind, the west's strategy of economic pressure makes some more sense. The economic pressure will help this strength window last for less time, and perhaps even cause some internal issues that will distract away from foreign adventures.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#266

Post by qwytw » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #239

qwytw wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rational reason would Russia have to invade the Baltic States (or even for example Poland)? Even in best case scenario if the west does not directly intervene, they would get an additional few million people almost all of whom absolutely don't want to live in Russia and whom Russia could barely afford to police and a lot of additional economic sanctions. Also we're totally ignoring the internal political fallout…

Border security (same reason the Soviets held onto their gains), paranoia, and Putin needing an external enemy to galvanize his power. Plus they've taken the Crimea and effectively a large chunk of Ukraine with little effective pushback. They may believe that Europe and US lack the will for harsh punishments, particularly with Germany (among others) reliant on Russian natural gas. There are also a lot of ethnic Russi…

Has China invaded Taiwan yet?

From a more cynical, pragmatic "realpolitik" perspective one can view Russian actions in Ukraine as largely defensive. From the collapse of the Soviet Union Ukraine largely functioned as a semi-protectorate of Russia, even before 2014 Russian probably had significantly more troops stationed in Crimea than Ukrainians themselves since their black sea fleet is stationed there. After the events of 2014 Russia saw that long-term they are likely going to loose Ukraine anyway and basically decided to cut their losses and at least maintain the control of Crimea. It's not like Russia actually wants to fully annex the regions in eastern Ukraine their currently fighting over, they just want a semi permanent conflict which would destabilize Ukraine politically and to ensure that the Ukraine could never join NATO (and likely the EU), since NATO accepting Ukraine would be basically equivalent to them declaring war on Russia..

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#267

Post by dmpk2k » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

batushka3 wrote: post #257

georgecmu wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a much more evenhanded -- and hence rare -- take, you may wish to read this very recent commentary from Jack Matlock, the last US Ambassador to the USSR[1]. He has the advantage of being an observer who is (a) very informed and (b) disinterested. The following paragraphs are worth reading, even if you fundamentally disagree with this viewpoint[2]. Russia is extremely sensitive about foreign military activity adja…

> Gorbachev had been assured in 1990 that the alliance would not expand It's a myth perpetuated by Russia

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#268

Post by aa-jv » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

drran wrote: post #181

aa-jv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a lot of European countries have no issue with Russia, but see America as the bigger threat to world peace. So? Which 'side' you pick is mostly a matter of national identity and how your personal views on world peace align with the military industrial complex of your own personal nation state. A lot of Europe is really sick of America's shit and want them to leave, too.

Can you name these countries, please?

Germans would like to have their country back and kick NATO out. Serbians, Hungarians, Slovakians, Czechians, Slovenians .. even my colleagues in Kosovo are sick of Americas' shit. The reason is, they don't live behind an iron curtain of censorship of America's crimes against humanity, as most Americans/Western Europeans do.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#269

Post by drran » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

lebuffon wrote: post #198

drran wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RF is extremely predictable. Its behavior was well predicted two decades ago. If you are predicting «happy path» only, then anything that deviates from «happy path» will surprise you. Peace time job for military headquarters is to predict «unhappy path» and prepare for it. Russian tactic is well known among former USSR and Eastern Block countries, so it was easy to predict what they will do: Will try to return post-s…

Where does this obsession with the external come from. Russia has the largest national landmass yet still they look outwards despite the many improvements that they could make internally. It's bizarre to me.

The goal of Great Russian Civilization is to protect and expand the Gorgeous and Mighty Russian Language.

The Russian Empire was known as «Jail of Nations», because they captured so many different nations across a huge area. To consolidate them, they are erasing their identity by forcing all of them to speak a single invented language, called Russian, which is based on Old Slavonic Church language, which is based on South Slavonic dialect as spoken near to Salonika (Greece) a thousand years ago. This is somewhat different from behavior of some other empires (Spanish Empire, Great Britain Empire, etc.), because the language was invented, so it was not native language for anyone, so nobody had an upper leg and nobody can be clearly blamed as invader.

Those, who switched to the new language, invented reasons about why Gorgeous and Mighty Russian language is superior to their laughable and weak native languages, so they have strong beliefs that they need to help those minor nations to escape the hell of speaking them and join the Great Russian Civilization.

Russia(now Ukraine) used Russian (now Ukrainian) language, which was a modernized version of Old Slavonic language, so they refused to accept archaic language. In 1912(?) Folk Assembly of All Russia (now Ukraine) declared rename of Russia (now Ukraine) to Ukraine to avoid confusion with Russian Empire or its language. (It's well hidden fact). Ten years after that, Great Ukrainization started, so millions of Russians (now Ukrainians) switched to Ukrainians, then Great Ukrainization aborted by Russians. 20 millions of Ukrainians were recorded as Russians again, 7 million adults (and 23 million children) were murdered by starvation in Holodomor.

Russian language, Russian culture, etc. are very new. For example, there are 0 (zero) folk songs in Russian language. Russians are studying history of Russia (now Ukraine) instead of history of their own nations. This makes them wonder why Russia now called Ukraine, and why their motherland is captured by Ukrainians. This makes them mad about Ukraine and Ukrainians. Nobody tells them real history, of course.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#270

Post by qwytw » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

deepsun wrote: post #236

qwytw wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rational reason would Russia have to invade the Baltic States (or even for example Poland)? Even in best case scenario if the west does not directly intervene, they would get an additional few million people almost all of whom absolutely don't want to live in Russia and whom Russia could barely afford to police and a lot of additional economic sanctions. Also we're totally ignoring the internal political fallout…

The reason is more territory. That is Russian never-ending external politics position, that's been followed through several centuries so far. Russia largely doesn't care about people as much as about territory.

Why? Is Russia some sentient hive-mind?