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Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

japantimes.co.jp

291–300 of 382 posts

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#291
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post #32

> The team, including Juntendo University professor Toru Minamino, confirmed that mice administered with the vaccine showed decreases in the zombie cells, medically known as senescent cells, and in areas affected by arterial stiffening. By now this has become a trope. "Researchers develop new treatment for {UNTREATED_DISEASE}" ... in mice. Mouse models of human disease are very limited in their predictive ability. Th…

I am curious, why are they still using mice and not tiny monkeys? If they are using some animals, why use random mice and not a primate? Any specific reason other than tradition?

Mostly legal and ethical barriers are vastly higher for non human primates

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#292
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deep misunderstanding of what jobs are. They're not "things" that exist in a limited supply. You can think of them as relationships between people. When population increases, no one worries that society will "run out" of friendships or marriages. Jobs work the same way.

I think you misunderstood how jobs work. They do exist in a limited supply. When a factory closes down and outsources all the jobs in a town, your job goes away. When a robot starts doing your job, you are not needed anymore for that job. People in ivory towers expect that you should easily retrain and find new jobs that does not happen for the average joe. When an immigrant is willing to do your job for less money o…

> They do exist in a limited supply. When a factory closes down and outsources all the jobs in a town, your job goes away.

I should have said "fixed number".

The US population is now twice as big as 1955. If the number of jobs had stayed fixed since then, unemployment would now be at least 50%.

This is clearly not true, which disproves the "fixed number of jobs" theory.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#293
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe all governments should create Warpspeed for this approach. What would that mean in practice?

Lots of money and no red tape.

I thought it was interesting that no country in the world did challenge vaccination trials despite there being many volunteers. I don’t know if I’d call that refusal red tape exactly but it’s in the neighborhood.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#294
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be like being worried about playing outside and being exposed to germs. Yes, it’s true that every new infection has the possibility of killing you. But, now we have evidence that exposure to diverse mild pathogens actually makes your immune system less dangerous to the self. Otherwise it would be safer to live in a clean room.

I agree you should not try to live in a clean room, and you shouldn't be worried about being exposed to normal amount of germs. When you say "exposure to diverse mild pathogens actually makes your immune system less dangerous to the self", I suspect you're referring to the hygiene hypothesis that has become part of popular culture. It's important to know that that hypothesis, nowadays, is about early exposure to beni…

I ate dirt as a child. Dirt is natural, healthy, and as long as the shit in it is broken down, pretty much harmless. I have a great immune system to this day. My little brother, who spent his early childhood in the city, is nowhere near as robust, and gets sick frequently.

Just some anecdotal early-exposure advocacy.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#295
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'd work So less jobs for young people.

This is a deep misunderstanding of what jobs are. They're not "things" that exist in a limited supply. You can think of them as relationships between people. When population increases, no one worries that society will "run out" of friendships or marriages. Jobs work the same way.

Actually they do. Without naming names, let's assume two populations, A and B.

A-Females are willing to marry B-Males, but B-Females are not willing to marry A-Males. This creates lots of abundance for B-Males and lots of scarcity for A-Makes.

As for jobs, in theory they can always be created a new. But in practice there are 1) very few people who can create jobs 2) external forces that might prevent new jobs from being created

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#296

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

Great but the jump to the gov side really have a lot of nasty question. Who pay for the extra age? When you got to 65 now or to be is this extension good or bad for you and for those youngster 20-30 waiting for you to go.

It is social, political and psychological major changes. Revolution may be. Good luck.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#297
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people can look and feel young for a very long time they will be very happy…

Older people are happier than younger people, pretty much every such survey confirms it. Young people don't appreciate their looks and health when they have it.

I’m not sure about that, there’s been all sorts of studies about old people and loneliness. The loneliness is so bad it impacts their health: http://www.nia.nih.gov/news/social-isolation-loneliness-olde...

I would be genuinely surprised if older people are happier than younger people.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#298
post #136
post #135

The day we escape death will begin the descent into the longest dark age humanity will ever experience. Death is necessary to allow new ideas and change to be brought into the world. Death is necessary to prevent wealth and power accumulating into fewer hands. Death is necessary for others to enjoy the right to bear and raise children. EDIT: 2 minutes go by and this comment has already been downvoted 3+ times. At lea…

Wtf is this deathcult bullshit. Maybe in 2A Jesusland death is the only option, but in other parts of the world there are taxes and proportional representation and euthanasia. Yes, there are problems, but saying that death (and more specifically aging with all of its shitty slow painful consequences) is great (okay, you said necessary), because it somehow "solves" other problems is a logical fallacy. Plus, "actually"…

Death is here for a good reason.

There's the general fear of death that drives a significant portion of human morality. If we can't die, we don't fear risking doing things that would result in our own deaths, or the deaths of others. Suddenly we can inflict a lot more harm and give a lot less of a shit what people think, because what are they gonna do, put me in jail for 1,000 years? I'm just going to live for infinity after that...

Aging is a significant source of perspective. As people age, the way they think about their lives change, the way they approach risk changes. Those changes in both thought process and lifestyle are probably one of the biggest contributors to how human societies work. We have probably never had a human society without aging people, so we don't know what a society without their influence would look like.

If people continue to be born, we would eventually run out of space. At that point you reach a new form of political crisis: do you kill people to make space? Do you shuffle them off the planet in rudimentary space stations? Do wars over resource contention increase? Certainly different "seniority" would lead to new social classes.

Death is a necessary part of evolution. If we eliminate death, we have to alter living people's genomes to respond to biological threats, mix up the gene pool, adapt to new problems and somehow try to predict unexpected ones. All of that is currently science fiction; we have no idea if we would get it right, and could end up basically destroying the species from hubris and ignorance. Nature has a pretty good handle on it.

Cultures should change over time, and people need to change with those cultural changes, but it's basically impossible for individual humans to completely change their entire cultural makeup. Can you imagine if people today lived alongside people from 3,000 years ago? We would end up separated not just by nations, but by epochs. It would just further segregate people and cause tension. The world would be so much more complicated than it is today.

Death is part of a process of cultural natural selection. It creates and changes and influences more than it destroys. Entire peoples are wiped out and new ones emerge, languages die and are born, knowledge is lost and created, practices are abandoned and instantiated. Shakespeare was dramatically influenced by death; it's a major plot point in basically all of his writings. Imagine if death simply didn't exist in his world.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#299
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, why are they still using mice and not tiny monkeys? If they are using some animals, why use random mice and not a primate? Any specific reason other than tradition?

Mostly legal and ethical barriers are vastly higher for non human primates

Sounds like an opportunity for those living in friendlier jurisdictions. Lab-as-a-service in a warm country with a relaxed legal regime for biomedical studies?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Economically and ethically, we should prioritize this research above most else. This research and all similar research (and sentiments like yours, which I strongly agree with) remind me of the classic Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant.[0] It feels as though we are finally on the cusp of learning the shape of the armaments that will one day slay the dragon. And I wish the world could band together the way we attacked COVID…

Surely could have been much shorter! An enjoyable parable but clearly written by a philosopher.

I'm actually in awe of how long he was able to stretch such a simple concept, with no payoff at the end.
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