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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#461

Post by lgrialn »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #269
burntoutfire wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has a business to run. "Apple" is not some abstract entity. There are people behind Apple (the shareholders, the managers, the employees). Real people, with real morals and values. I don't think that the only thing all of them care about is "running a business" and that all of them feel it absolves them from acting humanly. It's more complicated than that. (having said that, of course, greed is always strong)…

Apple has an actual fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. And via survival bias, companies that act purely morally simply cease to exist as they are out competed by companies that focus on profit instead. Such entities simply can't survive via capitalism without, perhaps, government regulation that ensures everyone is playing with the same set of rules.

The evil corporation writes the law "requiring" it to behave evilly, and their pet legislature passes it.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#462

Post by geodel »

joakleaf wrote: post #241
misnome wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they deceiving people outside China when only showing the difference inside China?

Well, for one thing because we outside China would automatically assume they are showing the same thing inside China as we see. Now we know that is not true. That is deceptive. ... And a a shareholder, I was also kept in the dark -- Which is actually also pretty problematic and deceptive.

LOL. So as a shareholder you get to see Iphone 14 model months before launch?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#463

Post by gscott »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #346
sneak wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forgetting about manufacturing. While China is indeed an important and huge market for sales... approximately 100% of Apple's products are manufactured in China (save some tiny fraction that are assembled in India or Texas). Every iPhone sold everywhere worldwide (except the few assembled in India) comes from China. Apple cannot exist without China. Full stop.

My M1 Mac mini says "Designed in California Made in Malaysia" on it. So perhaps it is "approximately 95%"? It would be really interesting to know the actual number, wouldn't it?

Likely the parts are shipped in from China to Malaysia.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#464

Post by pembrook »

tiffanyh wrote: post #107

Everyone new this back in 2016. On May 16, 2016 - China blocked Apple iTunes, Movies, etc [0]. On the same date, Apple invested $1B in Didi (Chinese “Uber”) [1] and magically China unblock Apple. So what’s new in this story? [0] https://amp.scmp.com/tech/leaders-founders/article/1945616/a... [1] https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN0Y404W

The media has a constant need for boogiemen to keep you scared and clicking.

In the 80s it was Russia, and in the 2020s it’s China.

Of course it doesn’t make sense when looking at it rationally. Because it’s about emotion.

I’m waiting for the 2040s after China’s population decline really gets going—-maybe India or Indonesia becomes the new boogie man. Fun!

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#465

Post by gscott »

wnevets wrote: post #83

Say what you want about Google and Microsoft but at-least they have taken some steps to back away from China's oppressive government.

Microsoft just hopes it can keep selling operating systems and Google has no market in China because the Chinese hate information. So they back off on anything controversial hoping for a better day to step in and sell something if possible.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#466

Post by geodel »

IntelMiner wrote: post #446
seb1204 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support that. At the same time I assume you have written this in a device manufactured in China together with many companies there object we have in our daily lives. Are enough of us willing to abstain from these devices?

Ah, that ol' "argument" https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342...

Ah, just pointing to a cartoon doesn't make an argument irrefutable.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#467

Post by gscott »

option wrote: post #373
blahgeek wrote: post #367

I’m a Chinese. I’m glad that apple did this. While I want apple to keep its dignity as much as you do, I cannot change our government (we don’t get to vote, so we literally cannot). Given this situation, if apple don’t do these kind of things, worse case scenario, it get banned in china just like google and many others. As a user, apple products are still the most privacy protecting products I can buy and use in chin…

you absolutely can and should change your government. Otherwise your children or grandchildren will have to and it will be even harder for them.

If you like being dead or enslaved, go ahead and challenge the Chinese government. They have an internment camp bed with your name on it. They have express lanes setup in airports to sell your organs to the highest bidder.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#468

Post by mathnmusic »

d3nj4l wrote: post #384
quitit wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People outside of China are served a different set of maps. Each country is served maps that conform to their territorial claims. E.g. If you view the map of India while in India, it'll appear different than if you viewed it in China.

To add, India has a similar law for maps. Any company serving maps in India has to show, for example, all of Kashmir - including the ones we aren't in control of - as belonging to India. I've made a small hobby out of noting websites which should be illegal in India because of that. A recent memorable incident (not a website, and not found by me) was when John Oliver's Last Week Tonight did a show on Asian-Americans…

Ownership disputes exist in many places across the world. But making an island appear larger than it is, is a unique demand that reminds me of Indiana trying to pass a law that declared the value of pi to be equal to 3.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#469

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Eelongate wrote: post #439
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That fiduciary responsibility meme needs to die already. Again, stop it. The companies you want exist, they just go insolvent before you ever notice them. If you want to change the way the companies operate, you have to change the system, you can't just expect companies to "do the right thing" in an environment that penalizes them for that. You can't have the free market cake and eat the ideological high ground at…

You take me for what, a libertarian? Do you think you know me? I never said anything about wanting a "free market cake." Regardless, nothing you said refutes me. "Fiduciary responsibility" does not legally compel Apple to do business in China. If anything, such misconceptions about fiduciary duty are espoused by libertarians online, not rebuked by them.

My point was that if Apple didn't adhere to maximizing profits, they simply wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be talking about their behavior in China. Regardless of whether you are a libertarian or not, you are wagging your finger at the wrong party (or to say, the party isn't really in a position to fix things). If you want change, it has to be via whoever is setting/enforcing the rules (in our case, government). The USA, ironically unlike China, doesn't really have the framework to force companies to adhere to some kind of moral code (outside of national security, etc...).

And even if we go down that rabbit hole, we just become more like China with some kind of state mandated moral code that can be easily perverted...maybe we can't really win on this.

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