Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#81

Post by justicezyx » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

justinator wrote: post #46

mempko wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits.

> China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems So long as you're not Muslim.

What do you mean? China invest heavily in Xinjiang. Xinjiang GDP is 19th on the list https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%...

Per capita GDP is similarly ranked.

And there are 56 minorities groups in China, they were all have specific aid program, like preferential treatment in national college exams.

What's the basis of such a wishwash statement on China and the people? Are you suggesting Chinese people are practicing racial segregation? Or what exactly are you suggesting?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#82

Post by junon » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #77

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #50

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

Anyone who has worked in mapping/GIS at a company that sells in China has seen this in action. The "display these islands larger" requests, the obfuscated coordinate system for geo-aligning maps, and other map content regulatory issues[1] all need to be dealt with if you want your map product available in the country. Not excusing it, but every company with maps there is required to do this, not just Apple. 1: https:…

This is a mind boggling realization. Is OSM data also compromised in the same way?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#83

Post by wnevets » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

Say what you want about Google and Microsoft but at-least they have taken some steps to back away from China's oppressive government.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#84

Post by remarkEon » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

lastofthemojito wrote: post #44

pupppet wrote: post #27

This will be the logical conclusion to every major American corporation unless someone puts a stop to this. If profit comes before everything, then so will China's 1.4B potential market vs US's 330M market.

It seems to be Apple's standard MO to comply with local regulations regardless of market size. They've complied with Russian demands[0,1] and it looks like Apple Rus accounts for something like 2.6% of Apple's revenue, a fraction that Apple could probably do without. From a recent interview[2] with Tim Cook: >"World peace through world trade," Cook said, adding that operating in foreign countries means Apple has to "…

>World peace through world trade

And here I was under the impression that most everyone - everyone important enough at least - understood that Fukuyama was (very) wrong. Perhaps his definition of "world peace" is different.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#85

Post by olalonde » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

moogly wrote: post #2

At what point does something like this become a national security issue? I know these modern titans of industry answer to no one, but perhaps they should?

Whose national security?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#86

Post by idiotsecant » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #65

echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have In principle I agree with you, but in practicality something maybe isn't working as expected? If those things mattered so much, why would the Chinese middle class have grown so much while the American middle class shrank? (assuming this is true, which I'm not…

>Most people would rather be able to afford food, clothes, a home, electronic, entertainment, etc, than they would the ability to be critical.

The Chinese 'middle class' standard of medical care ( on average, a lot cheaper but it's also a very basic level of care), financial security, air / water / consumer good safety, access to meaningful education, and freedom of worship / speech / congregation of all types is well under what is typical for a middle class citizen in a western democracy, even including the united states. At around $20,000 USD per year (approx boundary of China's upper middle class) you're in the same general territory as Russia.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#87

Post by silisili » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #24

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

I assumed it was firstly access to Chinese manufacturing. They can probably still make humongous profits without the Chinese market, but presumably their global sales rely on first manufacturing in China?

Apple is big enough and rich enough that they don't need Chinese manufacturing. It is a nicety, and probably cheaper, but they could have probably picked about any country to do it and set up shop. As pointed out, Samsung does all their mfg in Korea and Vietnam. Oneplus setup shop in India for some devices...and Apple is much more powerful than BBK.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#88

Post by MangoCoffee » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

tooltalk wrote: post #79

arcticbull wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there,…

Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output…

>I'm very skeptical that China is the only place Apple can make their products

I'm skeptical as well since Foxconn also open a factory in India for Apple.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Foxconn-set-to-m...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#89

Post by jollybean » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

There's nothing at all wrong with this unless it involves transfer or IP, know-how and of course the bits about privacy invasion.

Every country should be concerned that the money flying out to megacorps does not result in long term value for the country.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#90

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

junon wrote: post #82

ryandrake wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who has worked in mapping/GIS at a company that sells in China has seen this in action. The "display these islands larger" requests, the obfuscated coordinate system for geo-aligning maps, and other map content regulatory issues[1] all need to be dealt with if you want your map product available in the country. Not excusing it, but every company with maps there is required to do this, not just Apple. 1: https:…

This is a mind boggling realization. Is OSM data also compromised in the same way?

OpenStreetMap has a page[1] on this. TLDR: Private individuals surveying is illegal in China, which seems to outlaw the entire OSM project and any participation or contribution. I am not a lawyer or expert on Chinese law so who knows.

1: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China