Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#161

Post by MangoCoffee » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

beauzero wrote: post #130

MangoCoffee wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. when you say "invested more in their people"? what do you mean? if we are talking about education. both country offer free education to its people. College education are not compulsory and free in both countries

One culture values a broad band of technical education...one values social education. One advances technically and one wrestles with social issues.

that's culture differences. it doesn't support or shown China invest more in its people.

I'll argue, you don't need a lot of techies. you need people with vision like Steve Jobs, Jack Ma...etc. they don't have tech background and yet created giant tech company.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#162

Post by ethbr0 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #147

ethbr0 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So will any company, when threatened by China Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, Twitter, Snapchat, Reddit, Twitch, Dropbox, Medium, Wikipedia, DuckDuckGo? https://en.greatfire.org/search/alexa-top-1000-domains

You are making a very good point. There's no Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat etc in China. But there are WeChat, Baidu, Weibo, QQ, etc. China is more than capable to clone and/or make its own version of these companies. And these companies will do as the government says. So, I think that's an excellent example to show that tech "boycotting" China does nothing to change them. Separately, you should also keep in mi…

Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure.

There are many large examples that just didn't, and they exited the market.

There are also many large examples that struck varying bargains. I'm sure the CCP didn't get everything they wanted from the referenced Apple deal, and there were hardliners who were pissed about it.

And then there are probably a ton of examples that don't even care to bargain and just say yes to whatever is asked.

So, complicated spectrum.

Side note, if I'm doing my quick math right, Apple's worldwide revenue is equivalent to 1.6% of China's GDP. Which is pretty impressive.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#163

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #65

echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have In principle I agree with you, but in practicality something maybe isn't working as expected? If those things mattered so much, why would the Chinese middle class have grown so much while the American middle class shrank? (assuming this is true, which I'm not…

> why would the Chinese middle class have grown so much while the American middle class shrank? (assuming this is true, which I'm not sure)

It's not meaningful: Middle class in China would be poor in the US, and developing countries can expand their economies much more quickly.

I am happy for the middle class people in China.

> the best argument free democracies had used to be that the people of those countries were richer and had better lives

You skip the main reason they have better lives, which is freedom. All those Americans (and others) worked and sacrificed for freedom. Wealth is barely mentioned in the founding documents; the Gettysburg Address, FDR, MLK, etc., didn't mention it much (though the latter two did address poverty).

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#164

Post by MangoCoffee » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

thrdbndndn wrote: post #136

MangoCoffee wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. when you say "invested more in their people"? what do you mean? if we are talking about education. both country offer free education to its people. College education are not compulsory and free in both countries

College education is dirty cheap in China compared to the US (income adjusted).

this doesn't support "China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems.".

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#165

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #119

idiotsecant wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people would rather be able to afford food, clothes, a home, electronic, entertainment, etc, than they would the ability to be critical. The Chinese 'middle class' standard of medical care ( on average, a lot cheaper but it's also a very basic level of care), financial security, air / water / consumer good safety, access to meaningful education, and freedom of worship / speech / congregation of all types is wel…

The difference is that Russia has been stuck in that quagmire for 30 years[1], whereas in China, most of those people would have been impoverished rural poor, 30 years ago. When you have observed a colossal material improvement in your life, and you have hope for the future, you can overlook a lot of problems with governance. [1] Yes, yes, Moscow is not an active disaster zone. Russia does not begin and end in Moscow…

> When you have observed a colossal material improvement in your life, and you have hope for the future, you can overlook a lot of problems with governance.

It has been long believed to work the other way: Poor people don't have the education or resources to deal with governmance; they are trying to survive, working three jobs (if they can get them), etc. When the middle class expands is typically when democracy blooms.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#166

Post by davesque » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #50

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

This level of pretense is really mind boggling to me. It underscores how certain regimes/people fear objective reality more than anything. And it's a very inconvenient position to take since objective reality is everywhere.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#167

Post by misnome » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #150

qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

How are they deceiving people outside China when only showing the difference inside China?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#168

Post by stevehawk » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

drno123 wrote: post #28

Interestingly, Apple could also cause problems to TSMC. Because of Apple-first policy, at least two major chip manufacturers* are moving away from TSMC. One is even completely obsoleting a line of products that was previously being manufactured at TSMC. At the same time, while Apple can get processors from TSMC, their iPhone production is lagging behind due to shortage of power supply ICs. * - not sure if this info i…

and if TSMC ends up doing nothing but supplying Apple.. then it likely means they'll end up being a wholly owned Apple subsidiary

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#169

Post by phist_mcgee » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #97

arcticbull wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan). That presumes that other countries want to be part of America. I suspect strongly you'll find that's not the case. Merger then has a more "1812" feeling to it. The only folks tripping over their shoelaces to be US states are Puerto Rico and DC. > America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. E…

> That presumes that other countries want to be part of America. I feel like if there was a referendum, the UK's population would happily dump their monarchy in exchange for US statehood. There's a lot of commonality with their democracy, language, skepticism of foreign immigration, embrace of capitalism, etc. It would also be a pretty solid strategic move to bring the US closer to Europe as a hedge against the Russi…

I think you misjudge how much the Anglophone world looks down on America, and Americans in general. We take great pride in Australia of our differences from that place. We're much more similar to the British (and them to us) than to the Americans.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#170

Post by another_story » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #128

the comments, lol! > Maybe one day he should think about resettling to China… just saying. I mean yeah? Maybe? It's really not that hard to understand how to maintain high standing in multiple conflicting societies. Doing so in China is also not that difficult or bothersome, not any harder than maintaining good standing in a private platform like Youtube the analogy being that the arbitrary decisions follow unspoken…

Day to day life in China is easy if you're in a Tier 1 city, able to speak/read Chinese, don't require stable access to non-China based internet services, don't mind the pollutuon and are not black or Indian.

Even with some of these it's still OK, but it can be aggravating quickly. I feel like there is always someone in every apartment block constantly renovating and the drills on the walls never cease. Also, try transferring money put of the country. Spent more time in banks in China than all other places I've lived combined. And I speak Chinese, so most things are easier.