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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#201

Post by onepointsixC »

trasz wrote: post #188
onepointsixC wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have stated multiple times that muslim or uygur genocide in Xinjiang is a laughable propaganda lie. That you have stated so does not mean if it is true or not. Your Chinese source doesn't change the fact that Uyghur birthrates dropped by a 60% between 2015 to 2018 according to Chinese government statistics. From 2016 there was a seven-fold increase in sterilization [1]. There are no natural reasons why that would…

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> Birth rates always drop when the quality of life improves.

Sure. They do not drop 60% in only a few years, only amongst a single ethnic group in a single region. The numerous testimonies, plus recently leaked documents confirming this is an explicit CCP policy removes any doubt.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#202

Post by whatshisface »

javajosh wrote: post #178
ryandrake wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap has a page[1] on this. TLDR: Private individuals surveying is illegal in China, which seems to outlaw the entire OSM project and any participation or contribution. I am not a lawyer or expert on Chinese law so who knows. 1: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China

That is rather chilling, is it not? That a nation would prevent its citizens from looking around and measuring what they see? I can't help but wonder how the chickens will come home to roost.

Chickens can't find their way home if maps are illegal now can they.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#203

Post by hereforphone »

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

I have a secret to share. Apple and others may virtual signal but at the end of the day it's all about profits. If you believed otherwise you were mislead. "Think Different" is just a commercial slogan.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#204

Post by rscoots »

trasz wrote: post #184
justicezyx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean no moral equivalency? Are you suggesting one is obviously superior than the other? Judging the behaviors in the 21st century, I think China is morally superior to US? Based on the wars invoked by IS, and the poverty elimination done by China. Obviously China improved Chinese citizens living standard dramatically, while US are doing the opposite across the world.

Sadly, this discussion always goes the same way. You'll see accusations of concentration camps, then countered by the existence of actual forced labour camps (private prisons), then "countered" by being called a weebo. It's a fundamental mental difference between many Americans and the rest of the western world, the american exceptionalism.

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#205

Post by Eelongate »

foota wrote: post #200
javajosh wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is rather chilling, is it not? That a nation would prevent its citizens from looking around and measuring what they see? I can't help but wonder how the chickens will come home to roost.

That's the chilling thing about Chinese censorship?

> "the chilling thing"

Your comment implies a singular chilling thing, while his does not.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#206

Post by matwood »

i_have_an_idea wrote: post #147
ethbr0 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So will any company, when threatened by China Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, Twitter, Snapchat, Reddit, Twitch, Dropbox, Medium, Wikipedia, DuckDuckGo? https://en.greatfire.org/search/alexa-top-1000-domains

You are making a very good point. There's no Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat etc in China. But there are WeChat, Baidu, Weibo, QQ, etc. China is more than capable to clone and/or make its own version of these companies. And these companies will do as the government says. So, I think that's an excellent example to show that tech "boycotting" China does nothing to change them. Separately, you should also keep in mi…

This brings up the long debated question about China and Russia before them. Is it better to have US/Western companies operating with some concessions or better to boycott.

I'm still of the opinion it's better to operate with concessions because there is a chance of influencing the local population over time. Otherwise we end up with a completely siloed environment like has happened with parts of China's tech scene.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#207

Post by loudtieblahblah »

another_story wrote: post #170
vmception wrote: post #128

the comments, lol! > Maybe one day he should think about resettling to China… just saying. I mean yeah? Maybe? It's really not that hard to understand how to maintain high standing in multiple conflicting societies. Doing so in China is also not that difficult or bothersome, not any harder than maintaining good standing in a private platform like Youtube the analogy being that the arbitrary decisions follow unspoken…

Day to day life in China is easy if you're in a Tier 1 city, able to speak/read Chinese, don't require stable access to non-China based internet services, don't mind the pollutuon and are not black or Indian. Even with some of these it's still OK, but it can be aggravating quickly. I feel like there is always someone in every apartment block constantly renovating and the drills on the walls never cease. Also, try tra…

Tim Cook should be forced to live there for the rest of his life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#208

Post by simonh »

kelnos wrote: post #115
gonehome wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these things have a corrupting influence on the principles of the company over time: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html It's better to figure out an exit (imo) than continue to capitulate on these kinds of things, particularly in a country that is hostile to foreign companies and IP (and particularly if one of your company values is the privacy of your users). --- >>Peter Thiel: Well I…

Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.

Thiel seems to genuinely believe the USA, and the west in general, is in an existential struggle with forces intent on destroying it. I can’t speak for him, but maybe Islamic fundamentalists, authoritarian autocracies like Russia, Chinese communism, etc.

If you genuinely believe that, then putting ever more powerful intelligence gathering tools in the hands of western governments, even at some risk of threats to freedoms in the west, might seem reasonable.

That’s especially true if you have good confidence in the checks and balances in the free west to prevent the worst abuses of such tools, and that the threats are truly dire.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#209

Post by PoignardAzur »

javajosh wrote: post #178
ryandrake wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap has a page[1] on this. TLDR: Private individuals surveying is illegal in China, which seems to outlaw the entire OSM project and any participation or contribution. I am not a lawyer or expert on Chinese law so who knows. 1: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China

That is rather chilling, is it not? That a nation would prevent its citizens from looking around and measuring what they see? I can't help but wonder how the chickens will come home to roost.

I'm no sympathizer to the CCP, but I don't think this argument makes sense in our time.

There's a big gap between a private individual looking around, and lots of private individuals coordinating to look at everything all the time.

Modern technology is making that gap larger year after year.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#210

Post by mistrial9 »

ryandrake wrote: post #90
junon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a mind boggling realization. Is OSM data also compromised in the same way?

OpenStreetMap has a page[1] on this. TLDR: Private individuals surveying is illegal in China, which seems to outlaw the entire OSM project and any participation or contribution. I am not a lawyer or expert on Chinese law so who knows. 1: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China

I am curious about this -- is it more complete to say that zero surveying is allowed without a permit, if it is an individual or company or school or anyone?
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