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All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

publicdomainreview.org

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Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#81

Post by chrisco255 »

Hokusai wrote: post #73
danielrpa wrote: post #5

75-80 years late, so wonderful

So, anyone that had a personal attachment to that music is dead. The current goal of copyright is to let companies own the culture you grew with. All the movies, music, books and games that defined who you are will not enter the public domain until you are dead or very old. Companies like Disney were founded on well known stories. They will not allow anybody else too accomplish the same.

Disney was founded on Mickey Mouse. Yes, they made major motion pictures out of old myths and legends, like Cinderella and Robin Hood, but those stories have always been public domain and you can write a book or movie about them with no problem.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#82

Post by LocalH »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #31
marcodiego wrote: post #2

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

I think if we're going to time limit ownership rights to intellectual property we should time limit ownership rights to everything - including land, buildings, shares and stocks, bonds, art collections, all of it. Except maybe trivial items like home furnishings and portable tools. I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these a…

Thought experiment: If I could duplicate any physical item you own exactly, would you have a problem with it? Other than the time taken to do the scanning process, you wouldn't lose any access to your property. If so, why?

IP and physical property are not fungible, so I find this argument slightly disingenuous. They operate under different physical laws.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#83

Post by BeFlatXIII »

foolfoolz wrote: post #19
marcodiego wrote: post #2

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

i think this is fair and we will likely see it extended further. the media works of today cost way more than they did before. some songs cost millions to produce. some movies hundreds of millions. some video games billions of dollars. and the longevity of media has increased over time. we may not watch much 1920s movies but we do watch movies from the 50s and 60s. and i think recent movies will last even longer since…

> some songs cost millions to produce. some movies hundreds of millions. some video games billions of dollars

Seems like the cultural ROI isn't there. The extra money may bring extra revenue but it doesn't improve the quality at all. Why not force a market correction?

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#84

Post by skywal_l »

dahart wrote: post #78
skywal_l wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took 7 months for the Sonny Bono Act (of Sonny and Cher and at the time congressman) to extends the copyright from 50 to 70 years. I would call it pretty fast when you think it took several years for congress to vote the last "infrastructure" law (remember 2017's infrastructure week?). By the way, that law was sponsored by Mary Bono, Sonny Bono's widow (Sonny Bono died during that year) and also congresswoman. All…

> they they should be able to recoup their investment in a timely manner and 10 years is not that huge with all the means of electronic distribution we have today. It’s neither fair nor accurate to point at the speed distribution as an indicator of the speed of building a viable business. It’s a fact that it’s common for a business to need a decade to build it’s business pipeline before the business is viable and ful…

> From the perspective and of copyright specifically, it’s also a mistake to assume that all business can move at the pace of electronically distributed software

I think you are confusing copyrights with patents or trademarks. Copyright do not protect physical hardware or goods.

As far as I know, almost all copyrightable works can be transferred electronically. After all, we are talking about the right to copy (and distribute) a work (make more of them to sell it). Goods that cannot be copied are not copyrightable.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#85

Post by criddell »

dahart wrote: post #65
criddell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But think of all the businesses that might be built on the work of the original business that never took off. What we are trying to maximize is overall benefit to society, so we grant a monopoly to a creator for a limited term to incentivize new work. Ten years may or may not be too short. How often does ten year old software make the difference for a company taking off this year?

> we grant a monopoly to a creator for a limited term to incentivize new work That’s a nice goal, but not entirely accurate. Copyright is intended to protect individual works of authorship, and allow the author to leverage their work, even when they only produce a single work. > How often does ten year old software make the difference for a company taking off this year? It happens all the time in software companies!…

> That’s a nice goal, but not entirely accurate.

I based my statement on https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explai...

> it should be set by considering what’s long enough to recoup an investment and when it’s fair for the copiers to come take your work and use it for their own financial gains

I don't think we disagree really. I said the goal was to maximize overall benefit to society and I think you did too. Nobody will know if 10 years is too short until the issue is studied.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#86

Post by vlovich123 »

mbrubeck wrote: post #80
vlovich123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you defining urban legend? Here's from Wikipedia [1] > Until the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was approximately 40–60% of the total mortality > Excluding child mortality, the average life expectancy during the 12th–19th centuries was approximately 55 years. > ... even in preindustrial times as is demonstrated by the Roman Life Expectancy table, which estimates life expectancy to be 25 years at…

You are not comparing these numbers correctly. Your second link shows years of additional life expectancy. For example, at age 80 it shows 8.43 years of life expectancy, meaning that the average 80-year-old lives to age 88.43. So the average 25-year-old in the US has 52–57 years of life remaining, and will live to age 77 or 82, according to your link. This is a very big increase over the pre-twentieth-century adult l…

Thanks for the correction. So we're at a 45% increase. Typically life expectancy is reported as the "from birth number". That's gone from ~20 to 80.

The claim was that the bulk of the life expectancy number being driven by the mortality rate prior to adult hood was an "urban myth". Life expectancy in adult hood is a ~1.4x increase. Life expectancy from birth is a 4x increase. I'd say the bulk is driven by saving the lives of children and is not an urban myth.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#87

Post by Amorymeltzer »

sumtechguy wrote: post #67
marcodiego wrote: post #2

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

It gets more odd for the next few years. See 'Sound Recordings Published' sections https://guides.library.cornell.edu/copyright/publicdomain

This is a fabulous resource! I especially like that, unlike most guides, it also lists the dates going forward. Great way to show just how complex the system we've cobbled together is.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#88

Post by LocalH »

odiroot wrote: post #56
hippie_queen wrote: post #17

Can't wait to finally sample Thomas Edison on the phonograph for my Soundcloud tracks, and not having to worry about the police knocking at my door!

Knowing Edison, he can get up from the grave any day, to sue you into bankruptcy.

He probably had a patent on doing that, so be careful

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#89

Post by Retric »

KarlKemp wrote: post #68
vlovich123 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy of adults hasn’t changed much (ie your life expectancy when you’re in your 20s). The life expectancy number you’re most familiar with is largely driven by infancy because it’s the mean and high infant/child mortality skews that. We’re really good at saving the lives of children now but I don’t see why that matters for copyright. More hypothetically, let’s say human life spans got up to 500 years. Copy…

This is mostly an urban legend. Yes, some amount of the increase in life expectancy is due to reduced infant mortality. But it’s nowhere near the bulk of it.

In 1920 at birth a males life expectancy was ~54, at 40 a man could be expected to live to ~70. Current estimates are almost unchanged between birth and 40 at 76.23 vs 78.75. That’s a 25% increase in life expectancy at 40, but that a long way from the 41% increase from birth.

I chose 40 because it wasn’t medicine that made the biggest difference for 20 to 40 year olds but war. And actuarial tables can’t predict wars only account for past wars which make current estimates misleading. Aka we don’t have a lifetime of data for people born after 1920 only estimates.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#90

Post by IiydAbITMvJkqKf »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #31
marcodiego wrote: post #2

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

I think if we're going to time limit ownership rights to intellectual property we should time limit ownership rights to everything - including land, buildings, shares and stocks, bonds, art collections, all of it. Except maybe trivial items like home furnishings and portable tools. I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these a…

There's literally no difference between copying and stealing.
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