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All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

publicdomainreview.org

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Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#61
post #4

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

What do you think is reasonable? 14? 24? 50?

Honestly, I don't mind the idea that you the creator, personally, holds the copyright for life. If I write a song in my 20s that sets the world on fire and I can still live a good life at 80 off the back of it, great.

The minute I sell that copyright to someone else (or it's inherited), a time limit begins to apply. Perhaps here you move into the '20 years' or something category.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#62
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 10 years. We are moving at breakneck speed in just about every corner, but copyright protections. A decade is forever in today's world.

Is 10 years enough protection for the source code of a startup? Sometimes it takes longer than that to break even… All law moves slowly. The law is supposed to move slowly, that’s (mostly) a feature, not a bug. You don’t want the existing laws to change every year, driving would be more of a nightmare than it already is. Copyright was originally about protecting a creator’s ability to make some money from their works…

It took 7 months for the Sonny Bono Act (of Sonny and Cher and at the time congressman) to extends the copyright from 50 to 70 years. I would call it pretty fast when you think it took several years for congress to vote the last "infrastructure" law (remember 2017's infrastructure week?).

By the way, that law was sponsored by Mary Bono, Sonny Bono's widow (Sonny Bono died during that year) and also congresswoman.

All this is a neat little circle of people voting laws for their own benefits. This has nothing to do with artists or small businesses.

I think it is fair to say that once the original author of the work is dead, the copyright should go with it. And if a corporation buy the copyright, then they should be able to recoup their investment in a timely manner and 10 years is not that huge with all the means of electronic distribution we have today.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the rights that copyright protects is the right to make derivative works--such as sequels and film adaptations. If you consider that someone like Terry Pratchett can productively write a literary universe for decades, it feels to me like the best answer is around 30-50 years.

Isn't that trademark? IOW, when Steamboat Willie's copyright expires, it doesn't give you the right to make a new Mickey Mouse film. Disney still has a trademark on Mickey.

No, trademark is entirely different IP. Copyright very explicitly protects the right to make derivative works.

(See 17 USC §106 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106) for the full list of what copyright actually protects.)

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#64
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does having a work enter public domain automatically mean that eg New Order will stop getting paid for streams via legitimate services like Spotify?

Why would Spotify pay anybody for playing a public domain song?

Good point! :D

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#65
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 10 years enough protection for the source code of a startup? Sometimes it takes longer than that to break even… All law moves slowly. The law is supposed to move slowly, that’s (mostly) a feature, not a bug. You don’t want the existing laws to change every year, driving would be more of a nightmare than it already is. Copyright was originally about protecting a creator’s ability to make some money from their works…

But think of all the businesses that might be built on the work of the original business that never took off. What we are trying to maximize is overall benefit to society, so we grant a monopoly to a creator for a limited term to incentivize new work. Ten years may or may not be too short. How often does ten year old software make the difference for a company taking off this year?

> we grant a monopoly to a creator for a limited term to incentivize new work

That’s a nice goal, but not entirely accurate. Copyright is intended to protect individual works of authorship, and allow the author to leverage their work, even when they only produce a single work.

> How often does ten year old software make the difference for a company taking off this year?

It happens all the time in software companies! The early software foundation of a company is often integral to where it is when it starts making money. It’s common for the core ideas and algorithms to sit around for many years while the company is building marketing and payment and integrations and customer support and waiting for business to catch on. Sometimes companies wait on their patents to be granted before even starting to try to monetize some software, and it can take a couple of years just to get the patent.

From a copyright perspective, it’s important to understand and recognize that business, like law, often moves very slowly. While I’m firmly in agreement that 99 years is too long, I also think 10 years is too short. And to reiterate: the term length shouldn’t be set because tech moves fast, it should be set by considering what’s long enough to recoup an investment and when it’s fair for the copiers to come take your work and use it for their own financial gains.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#66
post #4

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

What do you think is reasonable? 14? 24? 50?

Not OP, but I think it makes very little difference whatever number you pick between “none” and “forever”.

Earlier this year a few authors whose work I enjoy tweeted furiously about this topic. Similar arguments may apply to audio and visual copyright.

If, for example, copyright lasted 14 years, then The Atrocity Archives (Stross) would already be public domain, which reduces incentive to create more in the series (not sure why, I would have expected new novels have new copyright, but I trust an author to know what their own motivations are, and I refuse to second-guess).

Now, these various authors on Twitter argued that being an author is poorly paid (it is), and that they would like to offer someone an inheritance comparable to a widow/er pension.

I can sympathise with that.

But, sales in most things decline over time. Sequels more, apparently (I wouldn’t know, one of the authors tweeted that). If income falls off exponentially with time, half the income for some specific work will be in the first x-months, 75% in 2x months, 99.9% in 10x months — I’m saying months rather than years because of how fast best-seller lists change, I don’t have real data.

Conversely, the reason for such a decline is that almost all the people who care will have bought the work soon after it is published. Making copyright last 100(average of all x) fails to harm society by preventing the work from becoming public domain, but only by the same[2] as it fails to help creative people commercialise their creativity, and for exactly the same reason: almost nobody cares any more. This remains true even if the income curve isn’t exponential, as the benefit to society is simply not having to pay for it[3].

Certainly I’m not rushing out to download some copy of inter-war music, radio broadcasts of whatever category, or newspapers; and I don’t even know if that’s for lack of money because I don’t care. I suspect I’m not alone in not caring.

Indeed, I only oppose zero/infinite duration because of the edge cases.

The point of copyright is to give creators an incentive at all besides the default of creative people being patronised or commissioned. This is already a thing — furry art by commission; stories[0] and YouTubers supported on Patreon. As this is not the status quo, if we switched to “no copyright” I expect this will break stuff and bankrupt people who have come to rely on it (this also means I oppose sudden changes in general).

If copyright was infinite, all works world eventually become lost in a legal quagmire of e.g. mergers and acquisitions where the actual owner ceases to be known.

[0] https://www.patreon.com/HamboneHFY

[1] except where the income per unit is too small to process ($0.001 per person times US population is still a lot of money).

[2] or losing track of who owns it, or [1]

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#68
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see scaling it by change in life expectancy, to keep the bargain roughly the same.

Life expectancy of adults hasn’t changed much (ie your life expectancy when you’re in your 20s). The life expectancy number you’re most familiar with is largely driven by infancy because it’s the mean and high infant/child mortality skews that. We’re really good at saving the lives of children now but I don’t see why that matters for copyright. More hypothetically, let’s say human life spans got up to 500 years. Copy…

This is mostly an urban legend. Yes, some amount of the increase in life expectancy is due to reduced infant mortality. But it’s nowhere near the bulk of it.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#69
post #8

Does this offer a sort of land-grab opportunity where anyone who has an original recording can remaster it, convert to mp3, then claim copyright over that "transformation" of the original?

Anyone else could create their own digital master though, so no.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#70
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal ownership is already limited by the owner’s lifetime and automatically transfers when they die. Copyrights, on the other hand, outlive the creator.

Generational wealth is a significant problem as winner take all dynamics tend to concentrate wealth within families until they get so powerful that they form aristocracies. The US is new enough that it’s aristocracy is just getting started. Several European countries lack them because war or revolution hit the reset button, but if you look at a country like the UK, you will see it alive and well.

Plenty of UK nobility has no substantial assets to speak of other than a house that’s ten times bigger than they need and a constant money pit.

The traditional way out is to marry a rich commoner who wants their children to be titled.

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