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All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

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Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if we're going to time limit ownership rights to intellectual property we should time limit ownership rights to everything - including land, buildings, shares and stocks, bonds, art collections, all of it. Except maybe trivial items like home furnishings and portable tools. I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these a…

How have I not heard this idea before? I find it a brilliant balance between capitalism and socialism. It reminds me of 99-year land leases. It’s enough ownership to pass on wealth for 1-2 generations, then it goes back into the public trust.

If interested, this is sort of a part of mutualism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory)

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#72
post #8

Does this offer a sort of land-grab opportunity where anyone who has an original recording can remaster it, convert to mp3, then claim copyright over that "transformation" of the original?

No but if you're big enough, you can get YouTube and other tech companies to enforce your non-existing right for you.

Big enough or just willing to fill out phony takedown requests, knowing there's never any consequence.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#73

75-80 years late, so wonderful

So, anyone that had a personal attachment to that music is dead.

The current goal of copyright is to let companies own the culture you grew with. All the movies, music, books and games that defined who you are will not enter the public domain until you are dead or very old.

Companies like Disney were founded on well known stories. They will not allow anybody else too accomplish the same.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#74
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is reasonable? 14? 24? 50?

Life of the author+0 years. Most people expect to inherit money and property from their parents but not to be paid for work their parents did years ago. I don't see why children of authors should have different expectations.

Creates the odd incentive for people to die.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#75
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if we're going to time limit ownership rights to intellectual property we should time limit ownership rights to everything - including land, buildings, shares and stocks, bonds, art collections, all of it. Except maybe trivial items like home furnishings and portable tools. I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these a…

Personal ownership is already limited by the owner’s lifetime and automatically transfers when they die. Copyrights, on the other hand, outlive the creator.

>Personal ownership is already limited by the owner’s lifetime and automatically transfers when they die. Copyrights, on the other hand, outlive the creator.

well personal ownership generally gets passed to your kids when you die and then to their kids etc. so as long as your descendants do not sell it, that lasts forever.

Copyrights might last past you to your kids but probably not to your kids' kids and further.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy of adults hasn’t changed much (ie your life expectancy when you’re in your 20s). The life expectancy number you’re most familiar with is largely driven by infancy because it’s the mean and high infant/child mortality skews that. We’re really good at saving the lives of children now but I don’t see why that matters for copyright. More hypothetically, let’s say human life spans got up to 500 years. Copy…

This is mostly an urban legend. Yes, some amount of the increase in life expectancy is due to reduced infant mortality. But it’s nowhere near the bulk of it.

How are you defining urban legend? Here's from Wikipedia [1]

> Until the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was approximately 40–60% of the total mortality

> Excluding child mortality, the average life expectancy during the 12th–19th centuries was approximately 55 years.

> ... even in preindustrial times as is demonstrated by the Roman Life Expectancy table, which estimates life expectancy to be 25 years at birth, but 53 years upon reaching age 25

Here are actuarial tables for people in the US today [2]. The life expectancy if you reach 25 is.... 52 or 57 depending on if you're a man or woman.

We're certainly better at reducing all cause mortality even in adults but it's not as stark of a difference as you might imagine, particularly its effect on the mean.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

[2] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#77

99 years to enter public domain... I don't think this is fair.

I think if we're going to time limit ownership rights to intellectual property we should time limit ownership rights to everything - including land, buildings, shares and stocks, bonds, art collections, all of it. Except maybe trivial items like home furnishings and portable tools. I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these a…

> I've yet to hear any credible argument - one that doesn't reduce to entitlement and wishful thinking - for distinguishing between these asset classes.

Owning a physical thing and "owning" information is fundamentally different. Information can be copied, spread, redistributed without taking it away from someone.

If you take land from someone they can no longer use it, if you copy information from someone they still have it themselves. You cannot build two houses onto the same place in the same property.

Ownership is designed so that we can say who is allowed to use things with naturally exclusive use.

Copyright is designed to make the use of naturally unlimited and reusable information exclusive.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#78
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 10 years enough protection for the source code of a startup? Sometimes it takes longer than that to break even… All law moves slowly. The law is supposed to move slowly, that’s (mostly) a feature, not a bug. You don’t want the existing laws to change every year, driving would be more of a nightmare than it already is. Copyright was originally about protecting a creator’s ability to make some money from their works…

It took 7 months for the Sonny Bono Act (of Sonny and Cher and at the time congressman) to extends the copyright from 50 to 70 years. I would call it pretty fast when you think it took several years for congress to vote the last "infrastructure" law (remember 2017's infrastructure week?). By the way, that law was sponsored by Mary Bono, Sonny Bono's widow (Sonny Bono died during that year) and also congresswoman. All…

> they they should be able to recoup their investment in a timely manner and 10 years is not that huge with all the means of electronic distribution we have today.

It’s neither fair nor accurate to point at the speed distribution as an indicator of the speed of building a viable business. It’s a fact that it’s common for a business to need a decade to build it’s business pipeline before the business is viable and fully supporting its employees. Don’t forget this system needs to support small businesses and not just megacorps.

From the perspective of law, and of copyright specifically, it’s also a mistake to assume that all business can move at the pace of electronically distributed software. Physical hardware goods frequently take more than a year to design, manufacture, and stock prior to distribution. Today we can add in an extra year of COVID related delays for the ordering and distributing pipeline … how many things are on insane back order delay as we speak? Copyright needs to be long enough that things like today’s situation don’t prevent a business from even starting to recoup, right?

> I would call it pretty fast when you think it took several years for congress to vote the last “infrastructure law”

The point I was making is that law moves slower than tech. You would agree that infrastructure funding happens on a glacial pace compared to what’s hot on GitHub or what new ideas are being incorporated into neural network training, right? It’s fine to think of a few years being “fast”, but that’s a subjective opinion that isn’t relative to something specific. I was trying to make a comparison between law and the things presumably parent was calling “breakneck speed”, which is clearly referring to things that move faster than law.

I also mentioned “existing” laws for a specific reason - new laws can and sometimes do come up quickly. But laws we need to know in order to comply with need to be mostly stable. And by and large, most of our law doesn’t change every year, we have small nips and tucks mostly in places that don’t affect the majority of the population.

Re: All sound recordings prior to 1923 will enter the US public domain in 2022

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly an urban legend. Yes, some amount of the increase in life expectancy is due to reduced infant mortality. But it’s nowhere near the bulk of it.

How are you defining urban legend? Here's from Wikipedia [1] > Until the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was approximately 40–60% of the total mortality > Excluding child mortality, the average life expectancy during the 12th–19th centuries was approximately 55 years. > ... even in preindustrial times as is demonstrated by the Roman Life Expectancy table, which estimates life expectancy to be 25 years at…

You are not comparing these numbers correctly.

Your second link shows years of additional life expectancy. For example, at age 80 it shows 8.43 years of life expectancy, meaning that the average 80-year-old lives to age 88.43.

So the average 25-year-old in the US has 52–57 years of life remaining, and will live to age 77 or 82, according to your link.

This is a very big increase over the pre-twentieth-century adult life expectancy of ~55 years of age! You claim that "life expectancy of adults hasn’t changed much" but your own links show that it increased about 50% in very recent history.

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