Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 1001 posts

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#251

Post by throwaway47292 »

rwaxm wrote: post #217

'"We have understood that the situation is very serious and that we want to take further measures in addition to those already taken," Merkel told reporters at Thursday's news conference. "The fourth wave must be broken and this has not yet been achieved," she added.' You do not need special measures. Florida and Sweden didn't have any and have the best graphs right now. Outbreaks stop by themselves. Of course, if yo…

in the netherlands they just implemented measures to shut down non essential things at 5pm.. that lead to gyms/restaurants/swimming pools PACKED with people.. half the space, twice the density. in the very same day they implemented the measures the cases stopped growing..

the fact that a scientist can recommend "lets shut down gyms at 5pm" instead of "lets make gyms 24/7" makes me distrust the whole corona committee

when i look at the lockdown+cases graph, i dont think there is any causal link between them. e.g. https://www.uni-konstanz.de/polver/zuber/covid-19-student-wi...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#252

Post by [deleted] »

mlazos wrote: post #114
TechBro8615 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, so a vaccine that does not stop transmission does not create selective pressure on the virus? Wouldn’t that be unusual from an evolutionary biology standpoint? Can we at least agree that if infected, as a vaccinated and asymptomatic carrier, there is a higher chance of transmission than if I were unvaccinated and symptomatic? This seems like common sense to me, but I recognize it goes against the Covid orthodoxy.…

Your assertion about transmission is definitely not proven. It all comes down to an expected value. An unvaccinated symptomatic individual will shed a lot more virus than a vaccinated asymptomatic one. It would probably take fewer encounters to infect someone else than in the vaccinated case. So although an asymptomatic vaxed person might be out and about more, the lower viral shedding could possibly account for that…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#253

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

krater23 wrote: post #230
Animats wrote: post #200

Understand, we're in the second epidemic and headed for the third. Plans made on the basis of the original virus may not be valid. "The enemy get a vote", as the military says. The original virus had a R0 rate of about 3, that is, in normal conditions, each infected person infects three others. That's about what the first generation of vaccines could control well enough that eventually the virus would die out. The de…

Which means, vaccination doesn't works. Sounds like the antivaccers are right(?) When you want to see it like this, we will never know enough to do anything. The only thing we can do with things that we can't change is to accept it. It's time to do...

No, vaccinations prevent you from getting sick. It’s the choice between a mild illness and potentially being admitted into the hospital.

What we’re starting to see is potential for further variants to evade antibodies, reproduce inside you and thus you spread it. Your immune system is still able to fight the virus easier because the vaccine has trained your immune system to look out for contagions like this virus but for a while you’re still actively spreading the virus before you’ve cleared it from your system.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong though.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#254

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

> 71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today.

how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated?

me f.x. I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. I doubt I'm the only one.

(https://impfdashboard.de/)

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#255

Post by annexrichmond »

jollybean wrote: post #234
zibzab wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden did not keep _everything_ open. We found a sweet spot between "business as usual" and "everybody stays at home". For example, big gatherings and sport events were not allowed. Schools were open only for younger kids.

And by 'Sweet Spot' we mean a materially higher death rate than immediate peers ... The lockdowns were imminently effective. In Canada, when we had big waves, we shut things down, the wave faded, we opened up gradually, if another wave hit we cloistered again and the numbers came down. If you look at 'Our World in Data' graphs you can see any number of 'spikes' for various countries, most of which were handled with l…

Lockdowns in Canada were ridiculous, particularly in Ontario. People weren't even allowed to go to parks or hikes. My parents couldn't drive to their cabin up north in fear of being ticketed.

My mom was telling me a story of her colleague's husband who resented her for going to work because he thought she was going to get him killed.

Are unreasonably strict lockdowns a good idea? Does it drive unnecessary fear? What if it causes more people to disregard rules later on?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#256

Post by shoto_io »

_Microft wrote: post #181
FiberBundle wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another factor is that the German government tried to keep infection rates low at all times, leading to very little natural immunity in the population compared to other countries.

We have 57 million fully vaccinated [0] people and 6 million infected/recovered [1] out of 83 million inhabitants. The recovered even have to get a shot later to keep their status as recovered/vaccinated (which exempts from the restrictions that are imposed now), so they might even be considered as a subset of the vaccinated group. More infections therefore would not have increased the total number of immune people b…

This is not logical. More infections in the younger age groups would have boosted the defense systems of many while keeping lethalities low. This would have helped tremendously.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#257

Post by cmrdporcupine »

kareemm wrote: post #96
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

Your numbers are very similar to Ontario's, and in fact Canada in general as a whole.

But what's strange is out the US doesn't seem to reflect this.

There are states with fairly high vaccination rates where vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU at rates many times ours, and are only showing up as 2.5 or 3 times better protected than the unvaccinated for hospitalization.

I don't know how to explain this other than length of time since injection. But we're heading into 6-7 months here now in Ontario and I'm still not seeing this trend. Boosters will certainly help, I'm sure, but I don't feel it can be the sole cause.

It's so ridiculous just driving across the border... look at Vermont or New York compared to Ontario or Quebec in terms of daily case rates and hospitalization. (Or Maine compared to New Brunswick, etc.) The only way I can explain it is by masking, which is still rigidly followed here in most of Canada, but not as much in the US.

PS congrats on having perhaps the most competent governments in North America in terms of managing this disease. It's not the first time I've found myself browsing for real estate in Nova Scotia, but it certainly became more serious this past year...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#258

Post by globalise83 »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

1. incentive - if everyone is locked down, there is no incentive to get vaccinated. 2. lack of contribution to hospital admissions - although some vaccinated people do get ill, once the elderly are boosted voluntarily the burden of this segment will be very low 3. credibility - the government promised and I quote "vaccination is the way back to normality". If they break this promise, they lose future credibility.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#259

Post by throw20211202 »

santoshalper wrote: post #166
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

The Swedes wore their masks and got vaccinated. What worked for them would not necessarily have worked for us.

We certainly got vaccinated, but it could be better. But masks are few and far between. There was a recommendation to wear them on some public transport for a while (and might come back, due to Omicron), but my very unscientific anecdata I'd say less than 1% of people I see wear masks. Going through the central station in Stockholm in rush hour, seeing hundreds if not thousands of people, and you can probably count the number of mask wearers on your fingers.

I would follow any mask mandate, but the experience here (from my point of view) is that they don't seem to help that much. Otherwise we should have an absolute explosion of cases right now, compared to other European countries. My personal theory is that people don't use them properly; look at people on tv, constantly adjusting them, or wearing them under the chin, reusing single-use masks, etc.

There's been an uptick in cases during the last week or so[1], but compare it to eg. Germany[2] that have had a strong mask mandate for a long time. I don't understand it either.

[1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ (do note that when looking at the chart for deaths, we have always been lagging a couple of weeks)

[2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#260

Post by thinkindie »

berkes wrote: post #101
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

10% of 5,821,297 is still 58,212 people who potentially get ill (and can die and can get into hospital). I'm not sure where you get the 15% higher death rate: any sources? In .nl we are seeing the same numbers (but on a 3x population of denmarks). Hospitals are so full now, they are rejecting e.g. cancer-patients and other "plannable Intensive Care patients". Over half of the patients on those ICs are vaccinated; erg…

btw - 10% of 5,821,297 is 582k. Therefore even higher number of people that could potentially end up in hospital, ICU or dead.
Post reply on HN