Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#161

Post by zibzab » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

lbj wrote: post #153

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden did not keep _everything_ open.

We found a sweet spot between "business as usual" and "everybody stays at home". For example, big gatherings and sport events were not allowed. Schools were open only for younger kids.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#162

Post by jimmygrapes » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #141

caeril wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness. If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure…

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

That's what they said back then, too.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#163

Post by bobthechef » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #157

lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.

Indeed, and the lockdown and other impositions have introduced numerous ills that don't necessarily register, at least not immediately, as deaths.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#164

Post by spookthesunset » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #157

lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.

What about all the negative outcomes from continuing all the restrictions?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#165

Post by fabian2k » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

krater23 wrote: post #149

fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.

We simply don't know. There are other vaccines that require a delayed third dose, so I don't think it is that unlikely that the boosters could cause a much longer-lived immunity. But it could also be that we'll need yearly boosters, or maybe only for the elderly.

I'll accept "Our governments failed especially hard this wave", the problems were more predictable this time and the responses were worse.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#166

Post by santoshalper » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

lbj wrote: post #153

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

The Swedes wore their masks and got vaccinated. What worked for them would not necessarily have worked for us.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#167

Post by krater23 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

throwntoday wrote: post #87

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

No you don't understand, the unvaccinated are the reason the vaccinated are getting the virus /s

Why you think this? People that are unvaccinated will have harder covid symptoms that are earlier found and in best case quarantined. With a cold maybee without the knowledge about covid they just stay in the bed for some days. Vaccinated people are more the ones with no symptoms and run everyday through the city and infect other people without knowing that they do it.

So I think that what you say is just not correct.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#168

Post by blub » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #141

caeril wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness. If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure…

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

They’re really not, they don’t know you nor do they care about you.

That was just a reframing you did to make them seem malicious, when they’re mostly indifferent, afraid or misinformed.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#169

Post by user-the-name » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

lbj wrote: post #153

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#170

Post by uniqueuid » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

marton78 wrote: post #126

crooked-v wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.

The spectre of exponential spread is summoned way too often. Yes, an epidemic spreads exponentially when it starts, but also it's self limiting after a while. The 4th wave is wearing of already. Every wave so far has worn off in every country, with our without measures. As a recent example, compare Latvia and Estonia in the past few months. The former imposed strict measures, while the latter didn't, and yet the two…

Why are you so certain that the fourth wave is leveling off?