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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
151–160 of 1001 posts
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#152What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…
The same is said in the Netherlands, but if you double the number of available IC beds, with associated staff (good luck with that), all you've bought yourself is two weeks before those are full as well – because of exponential growth.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#153As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…
"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early"
It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#154I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.
You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.
If your goal is exclusively to prevent transmission in itself vaccines aren't always they best way to do it. Isolation or biohazard suits are the way to go there.
If you require society to still keep working and for people to not die vaccines generally do a pretty good job of that.
If your goal is to prevent mutation of dangerous new variants vaccines are wildly effective.
I'd say just having the last 2 is pretty good.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.
If your goal is exclusively to prevent transmission in itself vaccines aren't always they best way to do it. Isolation or biohazard suits are the way to go there. If you require society to still keep working and for people to not die vaccines generally do a pretty good job of that. If your goal is to prevent mutation of dangerous new variants vaccines are wildly effective. I'd say just having the last 2 is pretty goo…
Vaccines generally DO prevent transmission, just not this one, coronaviruses mutate too fast, and the vaccines only target the spike.
This vaccine can spark new mutations since vaccinated people can get it and the virus would mutate to attempt to work around the vaccine immunity.
GPs main point was people's freedoms should be restricted to stop the spread. My point was it doesn't stop the spread. So why restrict freedoms?
Vaccinated people will continue to spread the virus, whether it's slower or faster doesn't matter in the end, it will spread until it's endemic. (I believe it already is)
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#15671% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…
>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.
4 months or could be even less. I don't know if we need to debate that vaccines are not the way out and we need heavy stress on therapies
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#157As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…
"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.
Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness. If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure…
It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.
It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#159What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…
> What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed.
Also one that collects high income taxes and high health care contributions (~14% of the income). So one can't really blame it on lack of funds.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#160As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…
It is worth remembering the "let people get on with it and they will work out" viewpoint within Europe was widely discredited by April 2020 (and ignoring the fact it worked in countries like Japan that have quite significant constraints on govt power).
My conclusion from this is that, in this area, regulations are path dependent. In some countries, people will make the right choices themselves. In others, they won't. I am in the UK, in 2020 it was evident that the hands-off approach really wouldn't work. But it did work this year.
Also, I don't think there is any question about fixing it. You have to test (most countries still don't test enough), you have to give people the information to make a choice, and you have to keep vaccinating. Imo, and I thought the opposite in 2020, lockdowns/heavy regulations aren't a long-term strategy (outside of China).