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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#221

Post by user-the-name »

throw20211202 wrote: post #216
user-the-name wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Not really, though: * Sweden: 1,485 * Denmark: 500 * Finland: 244 * Norway: 199 * Iceland (not really a neighbour, being a 1000 miles away, accross an ocean): 102 Some more random cherrypicking: * USA: 2,414 * Italy: 2,221 * Belgium: 2,322 * UK: 2,124 * Russia: 1,901 * Peru: 5,984 Deaths per million capita, as of 2nd december 2021, from[1]. [1] All numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Pretty sure 1485 is nearly 10x 199.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#222

Post by notjes »

krater23 wrote: post #149
fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.

Our governments should have done nothing. People, doctors and clinics would have taken care of this easily. Also, it would be a good community building exercise. But no. Once the Governments stepped in, it was all lockdowns, prohibition and ban of repurpose drugs, soldiers marching through streets, 80 years of ethics preaching tossed out the window in a heart beat.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#223

Post by Eelongate »

howinteresting wrote: post #157
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.

If the plan is to continue lockdowns until every last hypochondriac stops complaining about 'long covid', then lockdowns will never end. There needs to be a cutoff somewhere.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#224

Post by frockington1 »

dewert wrote: post #218
aarobot wrote: post #151

If you don't wear a life jacket someone else will drown..

Yes, because you're all tied together for some reason? Really, this analogy is too much of a stretch to be meaningful.

The vaccine is so effective everyone should get it but stay away from the unvaccinated even if you're vaccinated because its not that effective.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#225

Post by csee »

president wrote: post #180

After 2 years of Covid, I find it extremely suspect that the covid vaccines are still touted so hard as the only way to manage or exit the pandemic despite it clearly not being the silver bullet it was originally promised to be. The fact that the media and government can't talk about anything other than vaccines tells me people are not really interested in solving for anything other than selling more vaccines.

It's close to a silver bullet. Yes they don't completely stop transmission but who cares about that? All we should care about are severe cases and deaths.

Add the new therapeutics on top and we actually do have the silver bullet. Vaccine + Paxlovid, if widely distributed enough, ends the pandemic, barring some new, more severe variant.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#226

Post by rightbyte »

santoshalper wrote: post #166
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

The Swedes wore their masks and got vaccinated. What worked for them would not necessarily have worked for us.

> The Swedes wore their masks

No such thing happened.

Cumulative death per 100k for Sweden in Covid is about 1500, compared to 1750 for France and 1200 for Germany. And far worse then the neighbouring countries.

I would not say anything "worked" but rather that the policies were not worse than other bad policies.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#227

Post by [deleted] »

throw20211202 wrote: post #216
user-the-name wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Not really, though: * Sweden: 1,485 * Denmark: 500 * Finland: 244 * Norway: 199 * Iceland (not really a neighbour, being a 1000 miles away, accross an ocean): 102 Some more random cherrypicking: * USA: 2,414 * Italy: 2,221 * Belgium: 2,322 * UK: 2,124 * Russia: 1,901 * Peru: 5,984 Deaths per million capita, as of 2nd december 2021, from[1]. [1] All numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#228

Post by airza »

Eelongate wrote: post #223
howinteresting wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.

If the plan is to continue lockdowns until every last hypochondriac stops complaining about 'long covid', then lockdowns will never end. There needs to be a cutoff somewhere.

As far as I know, the latest research says that more than half (!) of people experience fatigue and other symptoms after 6 months. I don’t know if lockdowns are the right solution, but if the modal outcome is chronic fatigue than it seems a little flippant to call someone a hypochondriac.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#229

Post by StanislavPetrov »

fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

>71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today.

From the article:

>Germany, much like Austria, has one of the lowest vaccination rates in western Europe, with 68.4% and 65.6% of eligible adults vaccinated respectively, according to the ECDC.

More Germans support mandatory vaccinations than are actually vaccinated? Seems like it should be the opposite. There are many vaccinated people (like myself) who oppose mandatory vaccinations, but are there unvaccinated people who support vaccine mandates? If so, I haven't met one.

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective, the delays here cause increased load in intensive care and were to some degree avoidable.

That's not clear at all. In fact, all the data shows that incidence of mortality and severe illness among those with 2 vaccine doses and 3 is virtually nil. Reducing your chance at mortality while fully vaxxed from 1 in 50,000 to 1 in 100,000 is hardly significant, even though its technically correct that your chances of dying are "double" without the "booster". Nor is there any data that multiple shots reduce transmission rates.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#230

Post by krater23 »

Animats wrote: post #200

Understand, we're in the second epidemic and headed for the third. Plans made on the basis of the original virus may not be valid. "The enemy get a vote", as the military says. The original virus had a R0 rate of about 3, that is, in normal conditions, each infected person infects three others. That's about what the first generation of vaccines could control well enough that eventually the virus would die out. The de…

Which means, vaccination doesn't works. Sounds like the antivaccers are right(?)

When you want to see it like this, we will never know enough to do anything. The only thing we can do with things that we can't change is to accept it. It's time to do...

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