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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#241

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

cheeze wrote: post #174
_moof wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find any data to support your claim of a higher death rate in Denmark than all of 2020. The data I have show: - Denmark currently experiencing a massive new wave of infections - Previous large wave of infections was last winter, with rate peaking on Dec 18 - Daily deaths peaked one month later at about 8 per 1000 daily infections - Current daily deaths, accounting for lag, is also about 8 per 1000 daily infec…

Yeah, but this is HackerNews. The antivax crowd is strong here. Brandolini's law in full effect in this comment.

rather the opposite

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#242

Post by politician »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Blaming national problems on minority groups and enforcing involuntary ghettoization is quite German, no?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#243

Post by nzk »

arrrg wrote: post #128
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

No country in the world has the capacity to take care of more than “a couple thousand” ICU patients (well, it’s more like a couple of ten thousand ICU patients for the best equipped and richest large countries in the world, like Germany). Simply because “a couple thousand” is all that’s needed during ordinary times. Yeah, there are issues with staffing and inadequate payment of the staff, sure, and those problems are…

In three months, the booster efficiency might start waning again, we don't know that yet. These vaccines so far aren't looking like they are the solution to the pandemic either, better vaccines or better treatment might be. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense to get vaccinated if you want to help with the situation, but I do find the way our politicians deflect blame and openly insult a not so small segment of the population completely distasteful. They shouldn't be surprised if the people they're insulting are not willing to help anymore, now or in the future.

A strategy that would make sense would include BOTH vaccination and ICU capacity, one of which could have been started in March 2020, and it would have put us in a much better position today. Letting capacity decrease while waiting for vaccines that may or may not end the pandemic is negligent. Not getting vaccinated may be seen by some as negligent also, but different standards apply for governments and citizens.

The pandemic comes in waves, we do not need to plan for endless exponential growth. A few weeks of extra capacity would make the whole thing much easier to handle, given that we might be already at the peak and cases seem to be going down again[0]. The RKI weekly report[1] currently lists 1700 ICU cases, a month ago it was 1100[2]. So the 4000 beds we lost throughout the year[3] could have made a big difference.

[0]https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/rki-infektionen-103.html

[1]https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus...

[2]https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus...

[3]https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#244

Post by GVIrish »

lbj wrote: post #153
locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#245

Post by yosito »

musicale wrote: post #27
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Does managing indoor humidity help? It seems to with other respiratory viruses.

Yes! Indoor humidity helps in at least two ways: 1) Humidity prevents aerosol transmission 2) Humidity helps the cillia in your airways function better and remove foreign particles, including viruses faster before they have a chance to infect you.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#246

Post by arsome »

notjes wrote: post #222
krater23 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.

Our governments should have done nothing. People, doctors and clinics would have taken care of this easily. Also, it would be a good community building exercise. But no. Once the Governments stepped in, it was all lockdowns, prohibition and ban of repurpose drugs, soldiers marching through streets, 80 years of ethics preaching tossed out the window in a heart beat.

While I do feel the restrictions have been widely overzealous, to say "People, doctors and clinics would have taken care of this easily." is an absolute falsehood. The failure of the healthcare system to keep up in many places is what caused many restrictions to become a necessity in the first place.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#247

Post by Fricken »

hospadar wrote: post #182
hunterb123 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.

Passing a driver's test doesn't fully prevent all car accidents, and yet we still require potential drivers to pass a test. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

Across Canada, thousands of people have died as a consequence their elective surgeries have been delayed to make room for Covid ICU admissions.

In Alberta ICU admissions are 60x higher for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated in their 50s.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcom...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#248

Post by kgwgk »

zibzab wrote: post #161
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden did not keep _everything_ open. We found a sweet spot between "business as usual" and "everybody stays at home". For example, big gatherings and sport events were not allowed. Schools were open only for younger kids.

With "big gatherings" being defined as 50 people.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#249

Post by rory »

santoshalper wrote: post #166
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

The Swedes wore their masks and got vaccinated. What worked for them would not necessarily have worked for us.

I'm not sure who "us" is for you, but Swedes are not vaccinated at an especially high rate.

They're at about the EU average. 8-10% above the US average, 5-7% above California, but a few percent below New England, for example.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#250

Post by cmrdporcupine »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What people aren't typically "mathing" right is that even if you have 90% vaccinated, that's still potentially hundreds of thousands (millions in bigger countries) of un-vaccinated people who are prone to getting seriously sick.

The numbers here in Ontario are clear. Case rates among the unvaccinated are far higher, and ICU admissions are far far far higher.

I never fell for any line that said vaccination would just make the disease go away. Frankly that was never said by medical experts, only implied by certain politicians.

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