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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#181

Post by simion314 »

pjmlp wrote: post #173
simion314 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They managed to sell in the past a C# plugin for Visual Studio, so people paid money on Visual Studio and this company convinced them to pay more and buy a plugin for a Microsoft language and a Microsoft IDE, people paid because it is a great product (for their projects). IMO they for sure can improve on VS Code, I bet they could sell you plugins better then MS can create and I think this is because when you are clos…

When teammates ask me why my VS setup feels so fast compared with theirs, my answer is quite simple, I don't use resharper.

But similarly my nano feels faster then youur VS setup, the important part is if how productive you are. Sometimes is a good idea to see what makes your IDE or plugins slow, for web dev you can probably improve your IDE performance but telling it to ignore certain files and folders like the node_modules folder or the .min.js files.

Though the conclusion is that ReSharper slowness and price is worth it because Microsoft IDE is substandard and for some reason all the MS billions can't find a few competent devs and a competent manager to handle the problem( they are probably still fighting on merging the GUIs or how to name their garbage APIs in Azure ... yeah I am working with some backend MS APIs and their are garbage like created by teams that hate each other)

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#182

Post by mmargerum »

digerata wrote: post #168
technobabbler wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliJ is clunky as ef, and slow as hell. It's really powerful but feels really ancient, and isn't native on anything. I hate Java. I hope this is their attempt to completely bypass the old platform and create a new product from scratch, starting with vscode parity but eventually reaching the power of IntelliJ and replacing it wholesale. I don't know if that's their actual intent, but I can hope.

You hate Java but are okay with the DOM as an editor…

I have both. VSCode is noticeably faster. How do you know jetbrains new editor isn't a "Dom editor"?

I kinda hope JB built it as a native editor and just uses a scripting language for plugins.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#183

Post by mmargerum »

5560675260 wrote: post #179
technobabbler wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "DOM as editor" mean? As in the HTML DOM and manipulating it directly? How is that an editor/IDE? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. My only experience with Java is as an user, and it's never been positive. Whether it's the applets of yore or the modern Java apps, there's always performance, memory, JRE issues and terrible, second-rate UIs. Maybe the language itself is beautiful, I wouldn't know, but the user…

OP refers to VSCode being built on web stack. But AFAIK there is little to none actual DOM manipulations after initial setup since everything is rendered on canvas.

at that point why don't they just use native + skia ? Seems weird to build a web based editor to then just use canvas.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#185

Post by m_eiman »

phonicwheel wrote: post #75
tluyben2 wrote: post #15

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the features but it is so incredibly slow... and it gets even slower as the day goes on.

Just in case you haven't tried that yet, increase the IDE's memory heap size. That solved the problem of sluggishness for me.

Why hasn't Java added an option for automatic heap sizing for the desktop application use case (or any use case, for that matter)? Seems like a no-brainer thing to add, so I guess there are Reasons(tm).

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#186

Post by bearjaws »

wokwokwok wrote: post #10

There’s a real opportunity here for JB. If they’re prepared to give this away for free, and make money off of upselling folk on hosted remote dev envs (or licensing the server side to cloud providers) then this could actually compete with vscode. They basically don’t have any other product that is competitive with vscode. …but, I’m skeptical they’re willing to make the jump to freemium based on their other SAS produc…

I love VS code, but insisting that its parsing is even nearly as good as anything from Jetbrains is laughable. Working with Rust in VS code is no where near as good as IntelliJ for example, and their Javascript `intellisense` is best in class.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#187

Post by fourfour3 »

atraac wrote: post #84
agilob wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do…

I agree with this a lot - I went through a progression from simple -> full IDEs personally - writing a mix of PHP and JS for the web, along with C# for console apps, some python, and some terraform - I used to use a mix of a generic text editor with syntax highlighting and full MS Visual Studio.

Then it was VS Code, because VS Code gave me basic code completion and debugging which beat the text editor, and was massively faster than full MS Visual Studio. But VS Code's debugging features are buggy at best, PHP is a community supported language only, the .NET support is very easy to get tremendously confused/broken, and Python support for code completion never seems to work for locally installed packages etc.

Now I use the JetBrains suite of IDEs - PHPStorm, Rider, PyCharm do code completion, suggestions, etc on a scale that none of the VS Code community or MS plugins provide. PyCharm has really nice support for dealing with Pipenv. Rider has a NuGet integration. Rider debugging has always worked for me. An official JetBrains plugin provides the single best terraform authoring experience I've used. For me it really is the best solution.

Yes, the JetBrains IDEs are heavier than VS Code, and yes they cost money, but you're not cobbling together a solution from a disparate set of plugins and crossing your fingers. There's actual support.

With web development I find there's a lot of resistance to paying for dev tools - people are used to free. Additionally practically everyone seems to suggest VS Code at entry level to new developers. But once your project is non-trivial, it really isn't that good of an experience, in my opinion.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#188

Post by minimaul »

tluyben2 wrote: post #15

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the features but it is so incredibly slow... and it gets even slower as the day goes on.

If you're not using the EAP build of Rider, you're running an Intel IDE on that M1 laptop (see: https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/440192... ).

Try the Rider EAP with .net 6 - I find native arm64 .net flies on my M1 mac mini and M1 Max 14" MBP.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#189

Post by nicce »

LeonM wrote: post #137
wokwokwok wrote: post #10

There’s a real opportunity here for JB. If they’re prepared to give this away for free, and make money off of upselling folk on hosted remote dev envs (or licensing the server side to cloud providers) then this could actually compete with vscode. They basically don’t have any other product that is competitive with vscode. …but, I’m skeptical they’re willing to make the jump to freemium based on their other SAS produc…

I've used Jetbrains products for a long time, both as a student, and later professionally. Jetbrains products are free for students, and paid for professional use. In my opinion, the pricing of the product is spot on. My company pays about ~200 euro per seat per year, which is a good price for the quality tooling you get. In my experience, VSCode is not competitive with Jetbrains products. Their products come with su…

Tools are also free for open-source development: https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/

And for educational use (teachers) as well.

So I don't see a reason to jump on the freemium bandwagon. They offer a lot for free already.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#190

Post by 5560675260 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #140
nottorp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sheesh. Please no. Note that i do speak several languages and my native language isnt English. Still, please dont complicate my programming with translations.

I don't understand this approach. Obviously you'll have a choice. And those who struggle with English would love to have a choice as well.

Instead of learning english those people will now struggle both with english and programming, it is really a disservice. And when you'll collaborate with people using poorly translated terminology you'll struggle too.
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