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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#61

Post by spoils19 »

creshal wrote: post #11
bennyp101 wrote: post #8

I'm not sure what the use case is, for small tasks I have Sublime Text, for full on work, I have JetBrains. This /looks/ like a strange place between ST and VSCode

Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of the…

I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor.

Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with.

I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#62

Post by The_Colonel »

bennyp101 wrote: post #8

I'm not sure what the use case is, for small tasks I have Sublime Text, for full on work, I have JetBrains. This /looks/ like a strange place between ST and VSCode

It's a Sublime/VS Code replacement for people who use heavy JetBrains IDE with a huge benefit of UI/shortcut consistency and sort of fluent transition between both ends.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#63

Post by Zababa »

ReaLNero wrote: post #36
quanticle wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they make it free, they could get a big chunk of the market, especially if they actually provide it with IntelliJ level of autocomplete, refactorings, multicursor support etc. If they did that, then why would anyone buy IntelliJ? I understand why Microsoft came out with VSCode. They didn't have anything to offer for developers who weren't already bought into the Windows/.Net stack. VSCode was an effort to reach o…

I think polyglot IDEs like VSCode serve a different niche to PyCharm, CLion etc. In a professional context, you usually end up doing 80% of your coding in one language, so it only makes sense to use an editor that semantically understands the language to amplify your coding. One common use case where I resort to IntelliJ tools is refactoring methods/classes/variables, since it feels so much safer. My personal take is…

> In a professional context, you usually end up doing 80% of your coding in one language, so it only makes sense to use an editor that semantically understands the language to amplify your coding.

Another consequence of that point is that VSCode is this editor if your main language is TypeScript. At work we use VSCode for JS/TS, and Visual Studio for C#/C++ on Windows.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#65

Post by quanticle »

wokwokwok wrote: post #60
quanticle wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, I mean to be fair the coding services for most languages in vscode other than js (ie java, c, rust, python, go, php, c#, ruby specifically) suck totally compared to the JB tooling. I have to disagree. JetBrains' tooling is superior for Java and Kotlin. For C#, Visual Studio is pretty good these days, even without Resharper. For everything else VSCode is unquestionably better. I can just point VSCode at a direc…

> For C#, Visual Studio is pretty good these day We’re not talking about visual studio. We’re talking about vscode. You wanted to know why someone would use it over vscode: the answer is that vscode has poor support for some languages. Whether you personally prefer the vscode tooling in say rust, to the debugger in clion is your personal choice; but you are misrepresenting the situation if you say the latter, with di…

>You’ve already decided that without trying it. What can I say? You’re right. If it’s shit, there no reason you would use it over vscode.

Microsoft had a clear incentive to make VSCode not shit: Azure, Visual Studio Online, and, later, Github. But what is JetBrains' incentive to make Fleet good?

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#66

Post by Zababa »

spoils19 wrote: post #61
creshal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of the…

I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor. Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with. I know a lot of people will di…

This is a false dichotomy. You say "developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling" and "those who use the terminal + a basic text editor.". What of those that use heavily automated tooling but understand it? Of course people that understand stuff are better than people that don't, but this isn't directly correlated to terminal and IDE.

> I know a lot of people will disagree but my advice to more junior guys is always get rid of the toys and learn the tools.

You could make the same argument for writing assembly by hand, which will surely improve your skills. But that doesn't mean that a compiler is a toy. Those that learn and know the tools know their value. Senior developers at my work have a deep knowledge of lots of tools, because these tools can be very useful and save you a lot of time. They also build tools for others, to encode their knowledge and make everyone save some time.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#68

Post by sam_lowry_ »

tdrdt wrote: post #64

To me it sounds like this is used to test a rewrite of all their IDEs because it is written from scratch. I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform.

To me it sounds like they are trying to counter the assault of VSCode onto their market share.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#69

Post by tluyben2 »

gjvc wrote: post #31
tluyben2 wrote: post #15

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the features but it is so incredibly slow... and it gets even slower as the day goes on.

The culprit is the JDK11-based JBR. I was ready to dump JetBrains tools due to their lagginess, but with some deviousness (which might not suit you), I now have them running slipperier than a wet fish, by using JDK15/16 and JAOTC. Instructions are here: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... (I am very keen to tell people who are in the same despair as I was about how slow JetBrains apps are…

I will try this now; thanks for that!

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#70

Post by gjvc »

tluyben2 wrote: post #69
gjvc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The culprit is the JDK11-based JBR. I was ready to dump JetBrains tools due to their lagginess, but with some deviousness (which might not suit you), I now have them running slipperier than a wet fish, by using JDK15/16 and JAOTC. Instructions are here: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r... (I am very keen to tell people who are in the same despair as I was about how slow JetBrains apps are…

I will try this now; thanks for that!

please email me if you have any corrections / suggestions for improvement for the instructions :-)
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