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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

31–40 of 427 posts

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#31

Little bit offtopic; I try jetbrains ide's every time I get a new laptop; lately Rider for a 1m+ LoC c# project on my 16gb m1. It is unusable. I like the features but it is so incredibly slow... and it gets even slower as the day goes on.

The culprit is the JDK11-based JBR. I was ready to dump JetBrains tools due to their lagginess, but with some deviousness (which might not suit you), I now have them running slipperier than a wet fish, by using JDK15/16 and JAOTC.

Instructions are here: https://iam.georgecox.com/2021/11/24/making-jetbrains-ides-r...

(I am very keen to tell people who are in the same despair as I was about how slow JetBrains apps are out of the box -- hope it's not considered bad form to link to one's own blog post about it.)

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#33

Looking through the features, and the similarity of the architecture, looks like this is meant to compete with VS Code. Even the Settings implementation has the same global/user/workspace hierarchy; there's the 'trusted' code concept too. The one thing that might make it stand out is the smart mode: lightweight editor by default, and enabling it brings in the heavier IDE features. Anecdotally I've stopped using Jetbr…

What do you see as poor Linux support?

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#34

What can Fleet do that VSCode doesn't already do better? I'm looking at the architecture description [1], and it seems like it's set up almost identically to how VSCode handles remote editing and language servers. Sure, Fleet is integrated with JetBrains' Spaces, but will that ever stand up to Github's offerings? I use both VSCode and JetBrains' IDEs in my day-to-day work so I would consider myself as having one foot…

Well, I mean to be fair the coding services for most languages in vscode other than js (ie java, c, rust, python, go, php, c#, ruby specifically) suck totally compared to the JB tooling. Let’s not play “pretend vscode is amazing” here today. The plug-ins for many languages are of massively varying quality and some of them really suck . The only thing they having going for them is being free. So… It’s pretty questiona…

>Well, I mean to be fair the coding services for most languages in vscode other than js (ie java, c, rust, python, go, php, c#, ruby specifically) suck totally compared to the JB tooling.

I have to disagree. JetBrains' tooling is superior for Java and Kotlin. For C#, Visual Studio is pretty good these days, even without Resharper. For everything else VSCode is unquestionably better. I can just point VSCode at a directory full of Python files with a virtualenv, and VSCode just "gets it", and lets me jump right in to editing, with autocomplete and suggestions. With PyCharm, I have to manually configure the interpreter root, set the project root, and wait for it to do a bunch of indexing before I can do anything at all. Yes, once it's all set up, I have marginally better suggestions, but as VSCode's Python tooling gets better, that setup cost becomes less and less worth it.

>The plug-ins for many languages are of massively varying quality and some of them really suck.

Agreed, but that cuts both ways. I would argue that, at this point, VSCode's Calva plugin for Clojure is superior to IntelliJ's Cursive. Similarly, I found VSCode's Rust plugin to be easier to set up and get started with in a WSL environment than the Rust plugin for CLion. Sure, VSCode's support for Java is a garbage fire and its support for Kotlin is nigh non-existent, but as far as I'm concerned, both sides have pretty huge blind-spots when it comes to languages that are "second-class citizens" for their respective ecosystems.

>Obviously, support languages with the full range of JB tooling, that is categorically better than the pathetic support vscode offers for, say, c#.

Whether the tooling can be categorically better is difficult to say. After all, the architecture of Fleet is pretty much the same as the architecture of VSCode. They're both editors which use a client-server architecture to enable suggestions and remote editing. I'm not sure how much of JetBrains' IDE work will translate over, and I'm not sure how much of it they want to bring over. As I stated in my other comment [1], unlike Microsoft, JetBrains doesn't have anything except its IDEs. They don't have a cloud platform that is more important to them than IDE sales. The IDEs are everything to them, and instead of making the IDEs better they're off chasing taillights.

This seems like a mid-2010s Mozilla maneuver (like FirefoxOS) and I hope it doesn't do as much damage to JetBrains as FirefoxOS did to Mozilla.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29377859

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#35
post #22

It is supposed to be fast, but starts up in “seconds”. Shame.

VS Code also starts in "seconds" on my machine, so if that's what they're targeting it's probably a success.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#36
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope it's free too. Otherwise it makes no sense. As a customer paying for full IDE(Rider) I won't kneecap myself by paying for vscode alternative, even though I really hate working in vscode. If they make it free, they could get a big chunk of the market, especially if they actually provide it with IntelliJ level of autocomplete, refactorings, multicursor support etc. They have quite a lot of money from regu…

>If they make it free, they could get a big chunk of the market, especially if they actually provide it with IntelliJ level of autocomplete, refactorings, multicursor support etc. If they did that, then why would anyone buy IntelliJ? I understand why Microsoft came out with VSCode. They didn't have anything to offer for developers who weren't already bought into the Windows/.Net stack. VSCode was an effort to reach o…

I think polyglot IDEs like VSCode serve a different niche to PyCharm, CLion etc. In a professional context, you usually end up doing 80% of your coding in one language, so it only makes sense to use an editor that semantically understands the language to amplify your coding. One common use case where I resort to IntelliJ tools is refactoring methods/classes/variables, since it feels so much safer.

My personal take is that IntelliJ stands to gain a lot of developer goodwill and gets the proverbial foot in the door by putting Fleet at the forefront.

I mean, even if a lot of licenses get cannibalized, they could always resort to selling user data. I don't think IntelliJ is that sort of company though, they seem pretty ethical from what I know about them.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#37

There’s a real opportunity here for JB. If they’re prepared to give this away for free, and make money off of upselling folk on hosted remote dev envs (or licensing the server side to cloud providers) then this could actually compete with vscode. They basically don’t have any other product that is competitive with vscode. …but, I’m skeptical they’re willing to make the jump to freemium based on their other SAS produc…

JetBrains are not opposed to giving IDEs away & upselling which they're already doing for their Intelli IDEA Community [1] and PyCharm Community IDEs [2].

Since this is a direct answer to VS Code's dominance, I expect they'll do something similar and have a free version that can can be run on commercial hosting options, e.g. Space, Cloud & Docker.

[1] https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/

[2] https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/download/

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#38

What can Fleet do that VSCode doesn't already do better? I'm looking at the architecture description [1], and it seems like it's set up almost identically to how VSCode handles remote editing and language servers. Sure, Fleet is integrated with JetBrains' Spaces, but will that ever stand up to Github's offerings? I use both VSCode and JetBrains' IDEs in my day-to-day work so I would consider myself as having one foot…

[deleted]

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code also starts in "seconds" on my machine, so if that's what they're targeting it's probably a success.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Considering the tools developers use in general (Visual Studio, VS Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ, Netbeans, various DB browsers, etc.), application start up time doesn't seem to be an important concern for the majority.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#40
post #7

Built from scratch ehh? I wonder what it’ll be priced at. It seems promising. DOA without vim bindings though.

> DOA without vim bindings though. The number of users pining for Vim and Vim bindings is greatly exaggerated.

The IntelliJ vim plugin has over 11 million downloads.

For comparison, the most downloaded plugin is Kotlin, which has 34 million downloads, followed by Scala, which has 22 million downloads.

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