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The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#171

Post by GekkePrutser »

spinningslate wrote: post #35
hnaccount141 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be interesting to see how much of the interest in the no-OS option is due to Linux vs people choosing to buy a Windows key cheaper elsewhere.

I'd like to see that data too. I'd be very surprised if that windows scenario is anything other than noise level. Though, for completeness, I'd replace Linux with *nix - I'd guess there'll be some BSD users in there too.

Yes FreeBSD user here. Would love to have a laptop with verified-to-work hardware. Preinstallaton is not needed nor really wanted :)

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#172

Post by GekkePrutser »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #94
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to pirate windows anymore, there are tons of entirely legit windows 10 pro licenses for sale at <3€.

That reminds of the days that I was incorporated, and really wanted to be completely legit. I bought Office 95 Pro for half price, with CD's in a jewel case, complete with holograms on the labels, and considered myself a careful shopper. Then the company I worked for entered into a Select Agreement, and we had a meeting with an official Microsoft representative. I asked him why licenses on the Select schedule were so…

I bought office 2000 as a student for a tenner :) No holograms but it was official.

I've never paid for it since. Office apps aren't really important in my personal life at all, the open ones do just fine if I ever need them for something. And if I need the real office I just use my work laptop :P

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#173

Post by GekkePrutser »

jagger27 wrote: post #121
judge2020 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monterey supports the 2013 Mac Pro and 2014 Mac Mini, so if we can expect only 8 years of actual OS support, we'll probably see 8 more years of OS updates for stuff like the 2020 Intel iMac and Intel Macbook Air & Pro. That's a long while before this becomes a possibility. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212551

As a particularly relevant counter example, the last PowerPC Macs were sold until August 2006. Mac OS X Leopard came out a year later in October 2007 and received its last patch (10.5.8) in August 2009. That's a lot less than 8 years. This is why when the first M1 Macs were announced I immediately sold my 16" i9 MacBook Pro and bought an M1 Air for much less than I sold the Intel machine for.

Yeah while Leopard remained supported with some security updates, you could forget about all the OS update goodness which was still significant back then.

I had a PowerBook and it was disappointing how quickly it aged because of this.

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#174

Post by [deleted] »

pydry wrote: post #96
Mikeb85 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange considering other OEMs bundle it for the same cost as Linux. Framework's loss or they just don't consider it important?

Or Microsoft puts subtle, legally deniable pressure on the OEMs. I've never managed to buy the laptop i want without a windows license. Often it's been a PITA to take it off, too, to add insult to extra cost. In the 90s they threw their hands up and said it was nothing to do with them that this kept on happening and it was all a hare brained conspiracy. Until that memo came out and proved otherwise, of course. I can'…

[deleted]

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#175

Post by rowanG077 »

kall wrote: post #7
jacknews wrote: post #3

I love the idea of modular, upgradable, and especially linux-friendly. But, because modular, I'd like a Framework Surface. Having the screen, keyboard, touchpad, computer, etc all integrated into a single device, seems like far too many factors and constraints to be able to reach perfection. Better to split at least the keyboard and pointing device, so you can pick and choose.

That would be very interesting. Maybe I could finally fulfill my dream of a portable system that can raise the display to eye level while keeping the keyboard at an ergonomic level. I‘m surprised no one else seems to want this. Imagine if you could clip your screen onto the headrest in front of you. Wouldn‘t that be a huge improvement?

I used to do exactly this with the surface pro. I used this portable tablet stand: https://www.octa.com/products/spidermonkey.html

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#176

Post by GekkePrutser »

stormbrew wrote: post #125
_qbjt wrote: post #103

I'm typing this on my Framework now and I have to say it really is a special device. The prevailing culture of treating technology as disposable is something I personally don't vibe with - I always keep all of my tech and have collected machines over the years that most people would probably consider obsolete and uninteresting (there's an Amiga 1000 and iMac G3 currently in my field of view). Having a fully open mach…

> 4. The 3:2 display is awesome for programming and content creation, and I don't know why more devices don't adopt it. My only criticism is that it's not a touch screen but with how modular this laptop is it's only a matter of time before that becomes an option. Really strongly agree with both points here as a new owner of a framework laptop. My old personal laptop had a 16:9 (not 16:10) screen and wow the differenc…

Yes I found my old ThinkPad T42 recently and fired it up and got sucked in looking through my old files for a couple of hours. Its screen felt so useful and big.. 4:3 is great.

It only had a 1024x768 screen but apps really made way better use of screen real-estate back then. Much less unnecessary whitespace.

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#177

Post by GekkePrutser »

fsflover wrote: post #86
unethical_ban wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing or caring about ME or PSP, perhaps they mean the behavior of AMD the company vs. Intel the company. I am an AMD man as often as possible for this reason.

> perhaps they mean the behavior of AMD the company vs. Intel the company In short: "There is a computer inside your computer. And it can computer while you computer" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine

And you don't control this embedded computer in any way and it had access to everything.

I mean, Intel ME would actually be useful if we could log on to it and install (and remove!) software or even change out its OS.

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#178

Post by GekkePrutser »

sdorf wrote: post #116

I've been using mine (min-spec 1135 DIY) for ~4 days on Sway+Manjaro; the hardware feels really good and for all the considerations made towards repairability, it feels like a no-compromises premium piece of hardware. It was nice to be able to take hardware that I have laying around (i.e. SSD and RAM) and put it to use. The biggest disappointment so far is directly related to the processor offering: - It feels like i…

That battery drain might be caused by that vPro issue someone mentioned above.

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#179

Post by GekkePrutser »

mdp2021 wrote: post #148
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked this question to Nirav, one of the founders in a previous HN thread about the laptop. He clarified that there is currently no matte option with no plans for display options. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27948272 Perhaps if they realise there is a market that direction can be changed? (One can hope)

Considering that some will simply refuse to work on a glossy display (and I guess such "some" largely overlaps with their intended potential market), and that the whole purpose of the product is modularity, they will have to realize that they currently are losing an important slice of market - they are severely slashing their base.

Yeah it's one reason I like ThinkPads. They do great matte displays, even with touch functionality! I've never seen others do that combo. Not that I really care about touch but it's usually quoted as the reason for glossy displays these days

Re: The Framework Laptop Is Great for a Linux-Friendly, Upgradeable/Modular Laptop

#180

Post by plausibility »

dagw wrote: post #55
lrae wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... sounds about right then? 800 US$ are 700 Euro. With 20% VAT that would be 840€. And then you have additional fees on electronics in some countries. That's your usual "1-to-1 conversion" (with a sometimes like a "50€ premium").

But surely Apple and Samsung pay the same VAT, so a Samsung phone that costs $900 should sell for more than an iPhone that costs $800 if it was only VAT. Except that doesn't happen. The $800 iPhone costs the same (or more) as the $900 Samsung in Europe. Apple's relative markup compared to Samsung is much higher in Europe than in the US.

Something I've noticed a lot with tech products is that they "cost the same" (in number value) in USD as well as Euros or GBP, which actually makes them cheaper in the US. Take for example, the Awair Element air quality meter:

- Ordering in the US: USD$299[0] (~￡224) - Ordering in the UK: GBP￡299[1] (~$360 USD at the time of writing)

Even including 20% VAT in UK it should only cost around ￡270 by my calculations. Is shipping really that expensive? I find similar issues buying things online in Australia (and that's before expensive shipping, duty, import GST, etc.)

[0]: https://store.getawair.com/products/awair-element [1]: https://ukstore.getawair.com/products/awair-element

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