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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#181

Post by abfan1127 »

Klathmon wrote: post #132
35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I listened to a legal symposium once that was held by lawyers who specialize in self defense/use of force. Think "I have a concealed weapon and I killed someone in self defense - now what?" They all agreed that their clients worry far too much about being arrested. Their legal advice was unanimous: you just took someone's life, you are absolutely going to be arrested, nothing you could possibly say will change that.…

>A night or two in jail won't change your life A night or two in jail absolutely can change your life. A night or two in jail means not being able to pick your kid up from daycare or take care of pets/family, A night or two in jail means missing work without any notice. Hope your boss is understanding, because if you lose your job you're on your way to losing everything. A night or two in jail means you now need enou…

now, in addition to that, imagine not shutting up, saying the wrong thing, and getting thrown in prison for 5-10 years. Relatively speaking, all of what you mention is a "walk in the park". It doesn't make it ok, it doesn't make to fun. It doesn't mean we don't need reform.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#182

Post by pdimitar »

notyourwork wrote: post #166
pdimitar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said it, the other guy says he doesn't believe me. What discussion? That's the discussion stopper, not what I said. I can't prove anything except say it. And it's your choice whether to believe it. What's unclear?

What's unclear is you are making pretty wild accusations and saying trust me because I said so. That's as good as any other unfounded claim made on the internet and it doesn't contribute value to the conversation.

If you don't like it, report me to the moderators and let them delete my comment(s) if they feel you are right. As far as I am aware, I have a right to post anecdotal evidence without a huge legal trail proving that I am right. And it's your right to not believe it.

Why not stop there?

EDIT: And yes, this absolutely is one of the unfounded claims that can be found all over the internet. Have I claimed otherwise?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#183

Post by dTal »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #177
dTal wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When a cop is beating a liberal to death with a stick, the liberal understands the cop is exercising his power and will get away with it. When a cop is beating a conservative to death with a stick the conservative will righteously complain about how that's illegal and I want this bad apple's badge number. So, conservatives are the starry-eyed idealists and the liberals are the hard-nosed realists? That's an intrigui…

Now do the other side of the analogy with liberals and gun free zone signs.

To be honest, I don't really understand the analogy. Guns have been prohibited in school zones since 1990. It was signed into law by George H. W. Bush. Is there some new angle on this that implicates liberals in unreasonable behavior?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#184

Post by zionic »

jjk166 wrote: post #98
pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

You don't get justice in a police station, you get justice in a courtroom. The cops may do all sorts of things to you that they're not supposed to, and there's nothing you can do to stop them. But now you have a good chance of getting the whole case, or at least any evidence they obtain as a result of these actions thrown out the window, and potentially stand to gain from a profitable civil suit. Be compliant, be qui…

>The cops may do all sorts of things to you that they're not supposed to, and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Well, this isn't strictly true. But it's a quick way to get to 5 stars.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#185

Post by genericuser314 »

sethammons wrote: post #90
quacked wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right, and it's insane that people don't realize this. So many people that want police reform in the US think that somehow we can continue to let the police be mostly made up by people with a certain political persuasion and education level, and that we can simply control them with laws and incentives.

> political persuasion and education level Sorry, I'm not following. My understanding is that the job attracts bullies and I see bullies from all political persuasions and all education levels.

Based on political contributions, police officers have donated their money to Democrats and Republicans almost in equal proportion for quite awhile... until 2018, when they became overwhelmingly Republican.

https://archive.md/bacrC#selection-1400.0-1404.0

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#186

Post by mikro2nd »

rob74 wrote: post #60
jsilence wrote: post #55

If the government has my fingerprints, would they be allowed to use them to unlock the confiscated phone? Might explain why in Germany s of lately you have your fingerprints taken when getting your personal ID (Personalausweis).

I'd be very surprised if evidence obtained this way would be admissible at a trial. But if you want to be safe, use another finger for your Id card than for your phone...

Ah... in South Africa they print all n fingers (however many you have.)

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#187

Post by nerdponx »

anonymousiam wrote: post #116

I'm a long-time EFF supporter, but I am always concerned when they (or any other organization that defends civil rights) chooses to intervene in a loser of a case like this. The defendant will likely be convicted of kidnapping, and hopefully the Supreme Court will not use some form of twisted logic to rationalize what the cops did. The correct ruling here is to force a mistrial and forbid any testimony about refusing…

Maybe it would be better if they were more explicit about the "what should have happened" part, instead of just saying "no, the police shouldn't have done that and shouldn't be allowed to do that."

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#188

Post by devmor »

gwbas1c wrote: post #52
LinuxBender wrote: post #20

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

I think an easier approach is not to do anything incriminating on your phone.

Or - hear me out here - we could protect our reasonable expectation of privacy and not bend over.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#189

Post by bb611 »

anonymousiam wrote: post #116

I'm a long-time EFF supporter, but I am always concerned when they (or any other organization that defends civil rights) chooses to intervene in a loser of a case like this. The defendant will likely be convicted of kidnapping, and hopefully the Supreme Court will not use some form of twisted logic to rationalize what the cops did. The correct ruling here is to force a mistrial and forbid any testimony about refusing…

The downside to being a principled legal defense organization is that effective defense of common rights generally requires intervening on the side of people who are real criminals. A significant amount of 1st Amendment case law comes from the ACLU defending from people whose speech is abhorrent, but nonetheless protected. A failure to establish desired precedent often means allowing the court to establish the opposite precedent.

As the saying goes, "bad cases make bad law". In this case the EFF is weighing in at the appellate level to make sure that this otherwise abhorrent case doesn't lead to precedent that's damaging to all Utahns.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#190

Post by devmor »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21
nixpulvis wrote: post #5

Hmmmm... I was under the impression this was already the case. I remember reading about this a while ago when I was learning that they can force you to provide a fingerprint or face-scan.

Which is messed up. That said, biometric unlock is identification, NOT authorization; if you have secrets on your phone, do not use biometrics. They are a low to medium security convenience. Second, of course, don't keep evidence of crimes on your phone. And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also…

>on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in.

I don't know what iPhone you have, but on mine, that brings up Apple Pay.

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