Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused • Hacker News Board

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#81

Post by namelessoracle » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

lugged wrote: post #42

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but that access has to come from your brain; doesn't it therefore fall under the 5th amendment that you have the right to remain silent and something something self-incrimination? I mean I'm trying to think of other instances of getting access to evidence, and the only things I can think of is companies having to provide certain administrative documentation that may not even be their own. But that's probably me…

Don't a lot of cp cases hinge on being able to compel computer owners to decrypt hard drives?

Yes, but the case law for this is beyond complex and changes by jurisdiction.

I think it hinges on if the search for the hard drives is for specific files or exploratory. IOW "we saw traffic that led us to believe he downloaded this specific piece of CP on this date and we want to verify its there" vs "we believe there is CP on his hard drive based on testimony from this person who said he shared CP with that person".

But the case law for this is super complex and changes by jurisdiction.

But if a judge tells you to unlock the hard drive they will 100 percent throw you in jail until you unlock it. For years even. If what they did was "illegal" then there will be no consequences for the judge.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#82

Post by remram » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

And without breaking the law, the threat of spending 24-72h locked in that room is already a big one.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#83

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

Threeve303 wrote: post #75

Nothing stopping them from holding it up to your face to unlock it, though, right?

Correct. Five clicks of the sleep/wake button will disable Face ID temporarily. If you're prone to keeping incriminating stuff on the phone, you should probably have it off entirely.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#84

Post by pdimitar » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

legutierr wrote: post #80

pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

> I've known two former colleagues who were "convinced" to do so in the airport's back room; the one where problematic passengers are held for 8-24h. What country(ies)?

USA and Netherlands.

Draw your own conclusions. :P

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#85

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

breakingcups wrote: post #73

Consultant32452 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. The colons aren't making it clear. What do you mean?

Colon notation for analogies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_(punctuation)#Mathematic...

It translates as "Law/Constitution is to Conservatives as Gun Free Zone signs are to Liberals".

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#86

Post by edot » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

breakingcups wrote: post #73

Consultant32452 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. The colons aren't making it clear. What do you mean?

That’s the notation for an analogy. A is to B as C is to D. For example, Fins:Fish::Feet:Humans, or Green:Trees::Blue:Water.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#87

Post by remram » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

There should be a second passcode that erases the phone or locks it for 3 days.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#88

Post by mogopugh » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

breakingcups wrote: post #73

Consultant32452 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. The colons aren't making it clear. What do you mean?

"X:Y :: A:B" an anachronistic way of saying "X is to Y as A is to B". Meaning, "A and B are related to one another in a similar kind of way that X and Y are related to one another".

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#89

Post by rabuse » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #35

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is messed up. That said, biometric unlock is identification, NOT authorization; if you have secrets on your phone, do not use biometrics. They are a low to medium security convenience. Second, of course, don't keep evidence of crimes on your phone. And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also…

> And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also pops up with the option to call emergency services. Spamming the lock button is considered a panic button. This may vary from iPhone model to iPhone model, but you can also disable biometric unlock by holding down both the lock button and one of the vol…

Thank you for this. Didn't know the lock and volume trick.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#90

Post by sethammons » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

quacked wrote: post #66

63 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy to me the amount that people who have never dealt with the cops think "I'll just show them x legal code so they can see they don't have the right to do that." Turns out, they don't care. For minor infractions, they'll use whatever intimidation and coercion they want, then make you feel lucky for letting you out because they didn't feel like prosecuting. In most circumstances, the word of the person with th…

You're absolutely right, and it's insane that people don't realize this. So many people that want police reform in the US think that somehow we can continue to let the police be mostly made up by people with a certain political persuasion and education level, and that we can simply control them with laws and incentives.

> political persuasion and education level

Sorry, I'm not following. My understanding is that the job attracts bullies and I see bullies from all political persuasions and all education levels.