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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#51
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is from where the request comes - from the police during interrogation, or from the judge during trial.

The difference is also that the UK doesn't have a Fifth Amendment, and their right to remain silent is subtly but importantly different.

[deleted]

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#52

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

I think an easier approach is not to do anything incriminating on your phone.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#53
Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards.

Until there's true accountability and 100% transparency, these legislations and/or idealistic slogans don't mean much.

Technically airport security can't make you unlock your phone in many countries as well but I've known two former colleagues who were "convinced" to do so in the airport's back room; the one where problematic passengers are held for 8-24h.

So yeah, thanks for nothing -- namely for stating the ideal theoretical state of things -- but a lot of people out there need actual real-time protection, on the spot. Address that.

"Raising awareness" doesn't work on ruthless cops. I guess that's a mind-blowing revelation to many Westerners.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#54
post #52

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

I think an easier approach is not to do anything incriminating on your phone.

I for one, think we should not normalize a gestapo state and should absolutely push back on all forms of intrusion. Police have been caught planting drugs on suspects and it's really foolish to think they cannot plant digital evidence too.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#56

Hmmmm... I was under the impression this was already the case. I remember reading about this a while ago when I was learning that they can force you to provide a fingerprint or face-scan.

Which is messed up. That said, biometric unlock is identification, NOT authorization; if you have secrets on your phone, do not use biometrics. They are a low to medium security convenience. Second, of course, don't keep evidence of crimes on your phone. And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also…

On Android, rebooting the phone will disable biometric login until the passcode is re-entered.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#57

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

The correct thing to do if you want your phone not to be searched is to shut it off. The tools used to search phones generally work with unpatched vulnerabilities and you don’t want to do anything that looks like tampering with evidence.

When off the encryption of the device will be most effective and resilient to attack because nothing will be unencrypted until you enter your passcode at boot.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#59

Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS. Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement chil…

Siri iOS has an "I'm being pulled over" keyphrase which begins recording. There'be been a few "I'm being arrested" apps, which typically trigger by holding hard buttons (volume, home, and/or power), though I'm not aware of specifics. Most of these seem to date to the OWS protests of ... how did that happen ... a decade ago: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/help-im-getting-arrested/ Freedom of the Press Foundation off…

> Siri has an "I'm being pulled over" keyphrase which begins recording.

To clarify, it’s not a Siri feature but an iOS Shortcut (which you’ll need to download or recreate) invoked with Siri[1]. The actions and key phrase are customisable.

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/17/21293996/siri-iphone-shor...

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#60

If the government has my fingerprints, would they be allowed to use them to unlock the confiscated phone? Might explain why in Germany s of lately you have your fingerprints taken when getting your personal ID (Personalausweis).

I'd be very surprised if evidence obtained this way would be admissible at a trial. But if you want to be safe, use another finger for your Id card than for your phone...
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