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Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

missouriindependent.com

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Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#431

Post by carlisle_ »

dvt wrote: post #396
carlisle_ wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is called “whataboutism”.

"Whataboutism" is an informal fallacy that most non-technical folks (as in, not logicians) mis-invoke, like almost all other informal fallacies. My argument is not even remotely whataboutism. In fact, it can be even formulated without addressing the "other side" at all: you're making a category error by going from general (party trends) to particular (individual voters). It's simply a bad argument. I only brought up…

I can’t reply with emojis, so imagine this comment is just the eye roll emoji.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#432

Post by TimTheTinker »

xapata wrote: post #375
TimTheTinker wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who don't believe facts Much of it likely comes down to (a) misinformation coming from news sources they trust, (b) lack of trust in institutions (perhaps for good reason), and perhaps most importantly (c) prioritizing moral values differently than you do. I suspect (c) is at the root of much of the R-D split, with (a) and (b) being symptoms of it. Many Republicans and Democrats have non-negotiable moral val…

I wouldn't call them moral values, because the values expressed are so context-dependent.

The problem is that the true moral values held don't appear often enough in political speech.

I and almost all of my friends and family hold that "humans are created in the image of God, and thus their inalienable rights begin at conception. Therefore abortion at any stage is committing murder against the baby."

Not exactly context-dependent, unless I'm missing something. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#433

Post by mdp2021 »

Afforess wrote: post #349
vageli wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too little too late for that. > Invoking Godwins law, cause it seems apropos: > "As we say in Germany, if there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis" Is this in jest? Or are you truly suggesting that even conversing with someone who holds an opinion that differs from yours somehow makes you of the same opinion?

>Is this in jest? Or are you truly suggesting that even conversing with someone who holds an opinion that differs from yours somehow makes you of the same opinion? Are you truly suggesting the correct action to take with Nazi's is a discussion? Because there is a certain British PM that tried that approach back in the day....

> Are you truly suggesting the correct action to take with

the irrational is showing reasons? Yes. Somebody with a non fully compromised mind may be eavesdropping (note: it's a metaphor).

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#434

Post by hardwaregeek »

fallingknife wrote: post #329
hardwaregeek wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'd need to significantly improve high schools before considering eliminating college. Let's face it. We can't expect American high schools to teach students anything about the world. We've had schools try to spin the slave trade as sending "workers" to the New World. We've had attempts to show "both sides" of the Holocaust. And yes, college isn't perfect at teaching liberal arts, but it's better than not learning a…

> spin the slave trade as sending "workers" to the New World That's not spin. That's exactly what the slave trade was.

I'd firmly disagree. Workers has an implication of voluntary, paid work. There's a reason we have a specific word for unpaid, non-voluntary work. Not to mention slavery extended beyond work. Being a slave was not only backbreaking unpaid labor, but also a whole host of horrors outside work such as rape, family separation, forced breeding, torture, etc. Calling slaves "workers" is a deeply inaccurate categorization.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/us/publisher-promises-rev...

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#435

Post by phkahler »

_fat_santa wrote: post #296
nrmitchi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation is keeping his name in the spotlight, and people will, in general, be more likely to vote for names that they recognize. I don't believe that there is any other reason here.

I have a strong feeling this will backfire spectacularly. To any technical or even semi-technical person, the facts of this case are laughable. The Governor thinks that he can steamroll this case through, and is betting that most will not understand the underlying technical details and give into the fear mongering "hacking" narrative. But the thing is, as soon as this goes to court, there is a 100% chance the EFF or…

>> Once the defense can explain the layperson exactly what happened here, the governor is going to go from "protecting the people from hackers" to "dumbass trying to cover his own ass".

... In the eyes of those 12 people on the jury.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#436

Post by t-writescode »

cwal37 wrote: post #342
t-writescode wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To compare from the "other side" (though I'm not actually a Democrat), this is how I feel when I see the people I vote for screech propagandized speaking points for anti-gun stances. There are 2A Democrats out there that have to tolerate the insane (to them) things their representatives support.

Only insane in the context of recent decades. The vast bulk of jurisprudence (centuries) supported a much more restrictive reading of 2A, and changing that was a concerted effort of conservative groups (starting in the ~1980s), particularly out of more conservative law schools such as those in Tennessee. This was pretty well documented at the time if you would like to read about it[0]. [0] https://www.nybooks.com/art…

> particularly out of more conservative law schools such as those in Tennessee.

This sounds contradictory to my understanding, related to the Black Panthers in California back in the 60s.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#437

Post by russellbeattie »

abvdasker wrote: post #47

I'll risk making this a partisan issue and say the anti-intellectual and anti-science bent seems increasingly prevalent among Republicans like Mike Parson and their constituencies. One of the most shocking statistics I've seen recently is the Pew poll which shows that in the space of 2 years Republican attitudes about higher education saw a 20-point swing such that that most Republican voters now believe college is n…

I 100% believe that the true issue is religion.

The Church, as an institution, is dying. In their death throes they are basically doing everything they can to turn back the clock on society to a time they played an important role in dictating how we live. Every societal problem we have today is a result of Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions preaching their versions of ignorance and intolerance, every single Saturday and Sunday to millions and millions of Americans across the country.

Economic conservatives hate ignorance too - you need math skills to count your profits and to best gauge how to screw over your minimum wage employees, an accurate sense of history and economics in order to best manipulate markets and legal skills to avoid IRS and SEC penalties. They are just as frustrated with general stupidity as the rest of us.

But religious conservatives? They're fucking insane. They really, really, really believe what the Church tells them, and the shit the Church says is truly, truly, batshit crazy and has been for millennia. I personally know of people who truly worry about the "mark of the beast" from the COVID vaccination because that's what their Church says. In 2021 this should not be possible.

Until the secular American people realize who the real enemy is and go after the Church and all its leaders, in real, concrete ways, we're going to spend the rest of our lives dealing with this shit.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#438

Post by darkwizard42 »

bko wrote: post #96
abvdasker wrote: post #47

I'll risk making this a partisan issue and say the anti-intellectual and anti-science bent seems increasingly prevalent among Republicans like Mike Parson and their constituencies. One of the most shocking statistics I've seen recently is the Pew poll which shows that in the space of 2 years Republican attitudes about higher education saw a 20-point swing such that that most Republican voters now believe college is n…

There's a difference between being critical of higher ed and being anti-intellectual / anti-science. A lot of the skepticism of higher ed is precisely because they have not been doing a good job teaching science and critical thinking.

I think "a lot of the skepticism" is a VAST over estimate. Are you telling me that the anti-vaccine, anti-CRT (created a boogeyman out of nowhere btw), and various school boards revising how we should try to more objectively teach history/science are worried about higher ed being ineffective?

I mean yes there is definitely criticism on higher ed and what value students are getting for the now extremely high price tag, but to say that this is what is the issue is definitely missing the point

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#439

Post by t-writescode »

sophacles wrote: post #357
t-writescode wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a majority of democratic leaders wanting Ranked Voting, and I have a bridge to sell you, for example. Democrats and Republican leadership *want* the "good v evil" dichotomy of their party versus the other.

What does ranked voting have to do with Snowden?

Sorry, too many threads here and I missed this one. I was specifically thinking about how the two parties love keeping themselves around, rather than helping the will of the people get through.

Re: Gov Parson pushes to prosecute reporter who found security flaw in state site

#440

Post by phkahler »

jimt1234 wrote: post #214

There's a lot of comments along the lines of "How could the governor be this dumb?" or "Does he seriously expect this to succeed in court?" I recall an interview with Kevin Mitnick where he talked about a prosecutor arguing in court that he could start a nuclear war with a payphone (or something like that???). Kevin just sat there, listening to the prosecutor, thinking to himself that no judge could be so stupid as t…

>> The point is, yes, the courts are, or can be, that stupid, especially when it comes to "hacking". Just ask Kevin Mitnick.

+1 for bringing up Mitnick. His book "The Art of Deception" is pretty good and covers what you mentioned. My belief is that the courts and the general public are not nearly so clueless any more. And to the extent that they might be, lawyers know that tech stuff is important and can now make the required arguments to convince any remaining uninformed people how dumb these claims are.

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