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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

301–310 of 407 posts

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#301
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article says an mRNA vaccine for influenza was in clinical trials in 2015, but it never made it to market. What happened to it?

no idea. my guess is that flu mutates quickly and they couldn't figure out what to target exactly

[deleted]

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually deaths because of car accidents are less frequent than dying because of COVID-19 for 25-45 year old in US this year. For 15-24 year old COVID-19 is third leading cause of nonviolent death after cancer and cardiovascular problems. Dying of flu is 10 times less likely and this year almost infinite times less likely so far. There is one very important difference - reducing risk of death because of COVID-19 can…

Do you have a source for "third leading cause of nonviolent death"? According to CDC, a 24yo female death has a 113 : 2416 = 4.7% chance of being caused by covid, and a 24yo male death has a 195 : 6756 = 2.9% chance of being caused by covid. Not trivial, but I wouldn't call something with https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf gives you leading causes of death for 2019 by age groups.

But the groups do not match perfectly so you have to recalculate some https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for "third leading cause of nonviolent death"? According to CDC, a 24yo female death has a 113 : 2416 = 4.7% chance of being caused by covid, and a 24yo male death has a 195 : 6756 = 2.9% chance of being caused by covid. Not trivial, but I wouldn't call something with https://data.cdc.gov/resource/3apk-4u4f.csv

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf gives you leading causes of death for 2019 by age groups. But the groups do not match perfectly so you have to recalculate some https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html

Thanks for sharing. It comes across as a stretch to focus on 'nonviolent causes of death', when the first three causes of deaths in 2019 10-24 age group (page 11) dominate the charts with cumulative 73%, and the first 'nonviolent cause of death' is cancer, coming in a distant fourth at 5.4% of total deaths.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#304
post #296
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that's compared to normal figures (which are what, btw?). Because if normal figures showed 145 cases of myocarditis out of 177M people, that would be embarrassing as fuck.

Apparently there's like two millions of cases of myocarditis globally, so on average you'd probably expect tens of thousands of cases among 177M people. In what way would 145 cases be embarrassing for "normal figures"? I'd expect that a medical miracle would be praised at that point.

Quite a lot of health impacts globally are unevenly distributed locally. I don’t know the local numbers either, but I’d caution against extrapolating from global numbers.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#305
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently there's like two millions of cases of myocarditis globally, so on average you'd probably expect tens of thousands of cases among 177M people. In what way would 145 cases be embarrassing for "normal figures"? I'd expect that a medical miracle would be praised at that point.

Quite a lot of health impacts globally are unevenly distributed locally. I don’t know the local numbers either, but I’d caution against extrapolating from global numbers.

According to https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccines-update-o..., the incidence in Europe should be 1-10 cases per 100k capita per year, which would be ~1800-18000 in a population of 177M.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least three reasons that an injection is not the same. 1. The sudden viral load is orders of magnitude larger than typical exposure and given the complexity of the immune system, may produce a different response. Also recall that unlike traditional vaccines this mRNA hijacks your cellular machinery to produce an inflammatory protein - so comparing it to past vaccines in this respect is invalid. 2. Again…

> hijacks your cellular machinery No. It doesn't. This is completely ignorant misinformation. Your molecular machinery for creating proteins are doing so constantly. Introducing a bit of code that produces a protein that looks like the virus is in no way "hijacking" your molecular machinery. Your machinery happily chugs along with every other of the 10s of thousands of other proteins being produced at the same time.…

You may not like the connotation of the word but if "hijack" can be used to refer to taking over something and repurposing it for yourself, then yes, this is a "hijacking".

Especially when viruses are commonly described in the same way, since the mechanism and outcome is the same: an entity other than the human cell is controlling the output of the organelles.

In any case this is a pedantic argument and changes absolutely nothing about any of my points, nor is it misinformation.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#307
post #147

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

In #6, I'm not sure if Occam's razor is an actual proof of anything. Not countering the rest of the arguments, but I just can't see why Occam's razor should have any authority over anything except the things we already think are true.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#308
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've now administered billions of doses of Covid vaccines. If there were serious problems they'd be evidence by now. Listen, this sort of argumentation creates mistrust. If this is how seemingly rational people argue (and dear god i hope it's not) then no wonder there is a lot of mistrust in society around these matters. Or maybe you were sarcastic, and in that case, you got me!

Why? People use this kind of logic all the time to say that commonplace activities are unlikely to be that risky — in fact we have the opposite problem with so many people being used to things like influenza being softened by widespread vaccination that they collectively under-estimate the risks of the untreated form.

Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean it's a rational thing to do. As i see it, the only thing that matters in science is to be factual. If we stop being impeccable with our words, we are no better than the conspiracy nuts.

To say that the evidence would have been here now is simply not true because we can't possibly know WHEN symptoms will present.

What would be more appropriate would be to say that in the time frame from when people started getting vaccinated until now it doesn't seem like the vaccines are causing to many serious side effects. That is fair to say. What about in 5 years? We DON'T know. This is a fact.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf gives you leading causes of death for 2019 by age groups. But the groups do not match perfectly so you have to recalculate some https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html

Thanks for sharing. It comes across as a stretch to focus on ' nonviolent causes of death', when the first three causes of deaths in 2019 10-24 age group (page 11) dominate the charts with cumulative 73%, and the first 'nonviolent cause of death' is cancer, coming in a distant fourth at 5.4% of total deaths.

If it was not US, homicide would be somewhere below diabetes so I would say that it is not a stretch to ignore these causes. Beside, these are more or less environment and genetics determined. If you are black man in 20s in US, I feel really sorry for you but this is your reality. But the risk of COVID-19 death can be manipulated.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#310
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comirnaty is the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine. Spikevax the Moderna one. I dont know Swedish. Does it provide any numbers for Spikevax?

Can somebody please get moderna and pfizer a new person to come up with these names?

As a result (?), those bad naming help their company name advertised.
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