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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#231

Post by mullingitover »

CRConrad wrote: post #186
yes_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

> They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. No: Absolutely not worth it to take that particular shot, as there are others available which don't have that side effect.

The data I've seen seems to show that the Moderna vaccine is the best of them in terms of long-term efficacy against breakthrough infection and hospitalization. I got Pfizer, and honestly I wish I would've had Moderna regardless of some very slim chances of myocarditis. My increased chances of getting a breakthrough infection on the Pfizer vaccine outweigh my chances of getting myocarditis on Moderna.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#232

Post by sethammons »

cletus wrote: post #147
noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

> We've now administered billions of doses of Covid vaccines. If there were serious problems they'd be evidence by now

An economist steps over a $20 bill asserting it must be fake; someone else would have picked it up if it were real.

My family is sending me videos and articles about people who are claiming side effects and being ignored, and I'm wondering if there are some $20s laying on the ground.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#233

Post by 8note »

mythrwy wrote: post #184
Certhas wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote. Fear mongering. Misleading statistic. Misleading/demonstrably wrong information presented with an air of "obviously". Conspiracy... What is eroding trust in vaccines are narratives like this. You pretend like every single point you raise (accelerated development, VAERS) doesn't have a clear explanation that is readily available with a single search. You pretend as if these "issues" you identify are swept un…

Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? How exactly did you determine this? (to be clear I'm not suggesting he did, only questioning your methods of determining truth). "Back when it was plausible to get to herd immunity with 60% of adults vaccinated". That was never possible with these series of vaccines which don't prevent transmission, don't give full protection, and don't last very long. It's frankl…

They reduce the likelihood of catching it, and reduce the likelihood of transmission when you get it.

A herd immunity situation still involves individuals catching and spreading a disease, but the R value is below 1, so it fizzles out quickly.

Have a node in the graph reduce both incoming and outgoing probability of transmission reducea the R value.

The argument you can make is that covid's R value is so high that it doesn't matter how many people get vaccinated or catch covid, it will continue spreading, but "full protection" is irrelevant

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#234

Post by nojokes »

bjourne wrote: post #227
nojokes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they were. Each of the vaccines used around 40000 people in their trials. It is an equal to series of crash tests. But there are effects that are so rare that do not come out unless the medicine is administered to larger group of people. This is the reason why every approved medicine is kept under extended surveillance.

According to this page, the vaccines has a EU conditional marketing authorisation: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Afaik, most drugs are not introduced through a conditional authorisation.

And most drugs are not needed so urgently or are simply not available (a vaccine against HIV for example or effective cancer treatment).

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#235

Post by bjourne »

floor2 wrote: post #154
noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

> let those who want it take the risk This is the fallacy in your argument. It's an infectious disease that spreads through the air. An infected individual will emit particles of the virus which will cause other people to become sick, permanently disabled or potentially die. The rules of society are generally built around preventing and minimizing harm to other people. Sometimes that harm is intentional and obvious,…

We don't live in the society you describe. If it is fair to force people to take vaccines so that they wont spread the virus then it damn sure is fair to redistribute all the billionaires wealth to poor people. Because doing so would save many more lives than any vaccines ever could. We let the billionaires have their money, despite the cost to society so we must let people decide over their own bodies, despite the cost to society.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#236

Post by nojokes »

kaczordon wrote: post #208
nojokes wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tracy Beth Høeg was touting ideas against children vaccination well before this study she coauthored. A cardiologist commentary for this was that raw VAERS data is not to be trusted and CDC will know better. End of story. This study also seriously underestimates the virus speed and complications. Do not let any random quack fool you. Verify it.

Ahh yes the classic “if it doesn’t agree with my preconceived notions it must be a poorly done study” but if it furthers my beliefs then “anyone that questions it is obviously denying the truth/anti-science”. You dismiss this study without realizing that one of the authors is a very good cardiologist who chose strict criteria for what data to allow into this study.

I recommend you to read the comments section under the study.

Many other cardiologist disagree with this selection criteria and there exists clear bias that can affect the authors.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#237

Post by temeritatis »

cletus wrote: post #147
noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

> We've now administered billions of doses of Covid vaccines. If there were serious problems they'd be evidence by now.

Listen, this sort of argumentation creates mistrust. If this is how seemingly rational people argue (and dear god i hope it's not) then no wonder there is a lot of mistrust in society around these matters. Or maybe you were sarcastic, and in that case, you got me!

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#238

Post by mactitan »

guywhocodes wrote: post #216
cletus wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

The main assumption that is incorrect here is that there is no alternative to the mRNA vaccines targeting the spike protein. I'm not against vaccination but I would not recommend it to anyone after what it did to my body. Whatever it is. Give me anything else and I'll take it, all I need is COVID risk reduction and due to where I am it will likely be one of the Chinese alternatives.

Can you elaborate? I know of a few females who had irregular menstrual bleeding.

I’ve posted this before. I’d like to understand this better: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7645850/ THE RISK OF ADE IN COVID‐19 VACCINES IS NON‐THEORETICAL AND COMPELLING

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#239

Post by mythrwy »

8note wrote: post #233
mythrwy wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? How exactly did you determine this? (to be clear I'm not suggesting he did, only questioning your methods of determining truth). "Back when it was plausible to get to herd immunity with 60% of adults vaccinated". That was never possible with these series of vaccines which don't prevent transmission, don't give full protection, and don't last very long. It's frankl…

They reduce the likelihood of catching it, and reduce the likelihood of transmission when you get it. A herd immunity situation still involves individuals catching and spreading a disease, but the R value is below 1, so it fizzles out quickly. Have a node in the graph reduce both incoming and outgoing probability of transmission reducea the R value. The argument you can make is that covid's R value is so high that it…

The "reduce likelihoods" would need real numbers to determine if the R value would be below 1 and thus fizzle.

Hand waving doesn't show this and I feel it's unlikely given the amount vaccinated infection observed.

We didn't know everything we do now, but near as I can tell herd immunity was never a realistic possibility. It was with for the foreseeable future as soon as it went multinational and became a management rather then elimination task.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#240

Post by acdha »

temeritatis wrote: post #237
cletus wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

> We've now administered billions of doses of Covid vaccines. If there were serious problems they'd be evidence by now. Listen, this sort of argumentation creates mistrust. If this is how seemingly rational people argue (and dear god i hope it's not) then no wonder there is a lot of mistrust in society around these matters. Or maybe you were sarcastic, and in that case, you got me!

Why? People use this kind of logic all the time to say that commonplace activities are unlikely to be that risky — in fact we have the opposite problem with so many people being used to things like influenza being softened by widespread vaccination that they collectively under-estimate the risks of the untreated form.
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