A mouse model linking the myocarditis risk of covid mRNA vaccines to accidental IV injection:
https://www.researchhub.com/paper/1266246/intravenous-inject...
Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
201–210 of 407 posts
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#202~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
That's like saying "War and Peace isn't a big book because it isn't even as big as the smallest car". Yes, both can be measured in the same units (e.g. weight or volume) but that doesn't mean the comparison makes sense. You have to compare things which are in some sense alternatives of each other. The question is not "is the vaccine safer than driving" but "is the vaccine safer than not getting the vaccine ?". Sure,…
Myocarditis is not fatal, and not permanent.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#203The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…
> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…
For 25-35 year olds Americans COVID-19 has been the most likely cause of nonviolent death.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…
The USDA and AHA recommended cutting out saturated fat for decades and eating 9-13 daily servings of bread and grain. The authorities you say all should blindly follow are grossly incompetent and shown to be wrong time and time again. How long has the medical field been failing with its reproducibility crisis? How many deaths per year are attributed to malpractice in the US? If you want to listen to a bunch of well m…
USDA/AHA > Tucker Carlson (who is vaccinated BTW)
> If you want to listen to a bunch of well meaning morons ...
Oh the irony. The sad reality is that anti-vaxxers are highly susceptible to being manipulated and that is actively happening by people who are completely hyprocritically doing so for their own personal gain.
Every living president (including Trump) and governor is vaccinated. All but 3 Senators are vaccinated. All but a handful of Congresspeople are vaccinated. Fox News has a vaccine mandate for their office. Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham... all vaccinated.
Yet they're happy to play into irrational fears for their own empowerment and enrichment. That's all that's happening here.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#205The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…
Here's my vaccine anecdata. My wife and I are at the age when everyone we know is starting to have kids. My wife and I got pregnant on the first try, and 3 of her other friends had similar easy success. All 4 unvaccinated. On the vaccinated side of her friends there are two miscarriages, one stillbirth, one who has been trying since June, one trying much longer than that, and one that we think has been trying for a w…
> If these were caveman times and those people were drinking from a different stream, we would tell them not to drink from it.
Fortunately our understanding of statistics has advanced somewhat since the time of the caveman.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#206~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
That's like saying "War and Peace isn't a big book because it isn't even as big as the smallest car". Yes, both can be measured in the same units (e.g. weight or volume) but that doesn't mean the comparison makes sense. You have to compare things which are in some sense alternatives of each other. The question is not "is the vaccine safer than driving" but "is the vaccine safer than not getting the vaccine ?". Sure,…
I can only speak to myself, but I decided that covid is not a threat to me, and neither is the vaccine (being safer than driving). Hence I would just go with the path of least resistance: take the damn vaccine so people will shut up about it and let me be part of society.
Point is that the absolute risk matters too: If it's low enough you can just shrug and do whatever.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn't a medical system on planet earth that is prepared or capable of having 1% of their population in the hospital at the same time. So " Ignoring the massive financial burden on hospitals who are also not financially setup to have the entire hospital full of people sick with COVID - they are bleeding cash without elective surgeries. They can only bleed for so long without significant government intervention.…
1% of the population is not getting COVID all at once. That's 1% of people who happen to have COVID right now . A much smaller number.
The number of intensive care beds available in New York City pre-pandemic was about 1,600 - total.[1]
The population of NYC as of 2019 is 8.419 million. 8,419,000.[2]
NYC couldn't have more then 0.02% of its population in hospital at any given time. And that number is not available capacity - that's total. Generally at any given time 50 - 80% of those beds are in use for other patients since you don't build ICU capacity just to have it (remembering that ICU capacity is beds + equipment + supplies + staff).
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-nyc-more-than...
[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=new%20york%20city%20populati...
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isn’t true, the risk for young men 22 and younger from vaccine induced myocarditis exceeds the risk from COVID. Even more true for 17 and younger males: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... https://www.science.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-bet...
Tracy Beth Høeg was touting ideas against children vaccination well before this study she coauthored. A cardiologist commentary for this was that raw VAERS data is not to be trusted and CDC will know better. End of story. This study also seriously underestimates the virus speed and complications. Do not let any random quack fool you. Verify it.
Ahh yes the classic “if it doesn’t agree with my preconceived notions it must be a poorly done study” but if it furthers my beliefs then “anyone that questions it is obviously denying the truth/anti-science”. You dismiss this study without realizing that one of the authors is a very good cardiologist who chose strict criteria for what data to allow into this study.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#209~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
The trouble with myocarditis caused by the mRNA vaccines is that even though the risk is low, for some of the age groups it seems to be higher than the risk of them being hospitalized due to Covid. (A risk which a lot of people seem to overestimate, but that's another story.) So even though they should be more worried about crossing the road than the vaccine, it's also entirely rational for them to consider the vacci…
When comparing risks you need to account for the outcomes. The rare cases of myocarditis are mild and patients made a full recovery. The rare cases of hospitalization due to Covid have much worse outcomes for quality of life than myocarditis, including 3.5k cases of death in the US in that age group. [1]
So even if the risks of hospitalization were lower, which is 80 per 100k in that age group [2], it still doesn't make sense to conclude that the vaccine is a bigger danger than Covid.
Also don't forget this quote from the article:
> The risk of myocarditis is substantially increased for those who contract COVID-19
Given how easily COVID spreads, you'll be exposed to a risk vector for myocarditis whether you get vaccinated or not.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1122354/covid-19-us-hosp...
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
The study is preliminary - but they're being cautious and recommending young men switch to the Pfizer vaccine since the risk of myocarditis is lower. But just so people don't get the wrong idea, they're finding that the risk of myocarditis in young men who've actually caught Covid is something like 6x more likely than in those who received the vaccine: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v... S…
This isn’t true, the risk for young men 22 and younger from vaccine induced myocarditis exceeds the risk from COVID. Even more true for 17 and younger males: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... https://www.science.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-bet...
TL;DR: up to a 6.1x rate of cardiac adverse effects from mRNA vaccination compared to Covid 19 hospitalization for teen-aged boys.
> Results A total of 257 CAEs [cardiac adverse effect] were identified. Rates per million following dose 2 among males were 162.2 (ages 12-15) and 94.0 (ages 16-17); among females, rates were 13.0 and 13.4 per million, respectively. For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7 to 6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (7-day hospitalizations 2.1/100k), such as during January 2021. For boys 16-17 without medical comorbidities, the rate of CAE is currently 2.1 to 3.5 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk, and 1.5 to 2.5 times higher at times of high weekly COVID-19 hospitalization.