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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#21

Post by mschild »

jbergstroem wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

In sweden, this seems to be the "recommendation" from the government: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhets... ..which links to https://www.lakemedelsverket.se/sv/nyheter/covid-19-mrna-vac... ..which in turn seems to point here: https://www.lakemedelsverket.se/4a0b25/globalassets/dokument... ..which references EMA & EES which are European that states "145 cases of myocarditis out of 177M dosis…

Comirnaty is the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine. Spikevax the Moderna one.

I dont know Swedish. Does it provide any numbers for Spikevax?

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#22

Post by yes_man »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-...

According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30.

They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot.

Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So as to show that when there are scientifically established risks, there will be reaction to that as well.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#23

Post by kspacewalk2 »

mach1ne wrote: post #18
mfer wrote: post #8

So, they are halting the Moderna vaccine due to myocarditis and recommending the Phizer shot for younger men. Yet, Israel found the Phizer shot lead to myocarditis issues [0]. I wonder what the numbers are and what data decision makers are looking at. [0] https://archive.is/3bZoH/ (NYTimes)

I assume that the numbers reported (one comment quoted 6/39000) are actually lowballed, since you constantly hear about cases where symptoms obviously relevant to covid/vaccines are dismissed as not connected. I would guess decisionmakers take the reluctance to report into account when estimating the true risk factors.

>I would guess decisionmakers take the reluctance to report into account when estimating the true risk factors.

I would guess they do no such thing.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#24

Post by 542458 »

tomp wrote: post #20

In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.

I feel you’re taking the wrong message away here - the countries in question have more than enough doses, and can pick and choose between the vaccines. None of the vaccines are more dangerous than covid itself, but the government is recommending that (since they have an adequate supply) their people shouldn’t bother with the ones that are potentially extremely marginally more risky. If the “best” vaccine didn’t exist, they’d still be recommending the next best one.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#25

Post by Mikeb85 »

azinman2 wrote: post #7
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

2.7 per 100k [1] according to an Israeli study. Couldn’t find these details on the Scandinavian study. This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine — I wish this context with numbers were always printed in these cases. The non-scientifically trained public isn’t taught or should be expected to know how to contextualize these things. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full…

> This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine

But the risk of getting COVID in any time period is less than 1 (based on % of population that has actually had it, possibly less than 0.1 or 10% per year), so it's worth waiting for the safest vaccine for certain groups.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#26

Post by azinman2 »

mfer wrote: post #13
azinman2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.7 per 100k [1] according to an Israeli study. Couldn’t find these details on the Scandinavian study. This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine — I wish this context with numbers were always printed in these cases. The non-scientifically trained public isn’t taught or should be expected to know how to contextualize these things. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full…

The Israeli study was on Phizer. Finland is recommending people people not take Moderna and instead take the Phizer. Without a more detailed case behind this it feels like "just trust us". I'd really like some trust but verify. The lack of ability to verify many of these directions, especially with some of them from different organizations contradicting each other, is bothersome.

New study using Kaiser data with both Pfizer and Moderna all ages [1]. 15 cases out of 2,392,924 (0.8 cases per 1 million first doses and 5.8 cases per 1 million second doses over a 10-day observation window), of which all were men with a median age of 25 years.

While that's both vaccines, it's still quite rare especially given the large population size (2.3M people), especially considering for under 16s your risk of myocarditis is 37x more likely if you get Covid [2].

[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...

[2] https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/08/31/covid-myocar...

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#27

Post by orf »

~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes.

So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vaccinated because that's faaar more dangerous (especially if you live in Wyoming).

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#28

Post by phero_cnstrcts »

tomp wrote: post #20

In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.

Still the mantra is to vaccinate even more!

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#29

Post by peakaboo »

tomp wrote: post #20

In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.

All these comments fall to the bottom, which means the majority believes the vaccine is safe and effective.

The majority also supports the censorship carried out by all social media platforms.

I think it has always been like this. The majority follows what they are told and the minority doesn't get listened to.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#30

Post by nicoburns »

mikeyouse wrote: post #17
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

The study is preliminary - but they're being cautious and recommending young men switch to the Pfizer vaccine since the risk of myocarditis is lower. But just so people don't get the wrong idea, they're finding that the risk of myocarditis in young men who've actually caught Covid is something like 6x more likely than in those who received the vaccine: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v... S…

As a young male who got myocarditis from both covid and the vaccine, the other thing that's worth knowing that I wish I'd known earlier: if you do get it, then the best thing to do to prevent long-term damage is to avoid exercise completely (potentially for 6 months to a year, or until you've been cleared by a doctor).
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