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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#181

Post by lliamander »

tw04 wrote: post #152
gorwell wrote: post #59

A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid? For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer. But…

There isn't a medical system on planet earth that is prepared or capable of having 1% of their population in the hospital at the same time. So " Ignoring the massive financial burden on hospitals who are also not financially setup to have the entire hospital full of people sick with COVID - they are bleeding cash without elective surgeries. They can only bleed for so long without significant government intervention.…

1% of the population is not getting COVID all at once. That's 1% of people who happen to have COVID right now. A much smaller number.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#182

Post by tablespoon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

>> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said.

> I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles.

This article on the same general topic has numbers:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/health/covid-vaccine-chil...

> A New Vaccine Strategy for Children: Just One Dose, for Now

> Myocarditis, a rare side effect, occurs mostly after the second dose. So in some countries, officials are trying out single doses for children....

> Officials in Hong Kong as well as in Britain, Norway and other countries have recommended a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for children ages 12 and older — providing partial protection from the virus, but without the potential harms occasionally observed after two doses....

> Advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reviewed data on myocarditis in June, and unanimously voted to recommend the vaccine for children ages 12 and older, saying the benefits far outweighed the risk.

> Agency research has estimated that for every million vaccinated boys ages 12 to 17 in the United States, the shots might cause a maximum of 70 myocarditis cases, but they would prevent 5,700 infections, 215 hospitalizations and two deaths. Studies have also shown that the risk of heart problems after Covid-19 is much higher than after vaccination....

> The latest analysis, which was published on Wednesday in The New England Journal of Medicine, found that the incidence of myocarditis after vaccination in Israel was highest among males aged 16 to 29. About 11 of every 100,000 males in that age group developed the condition a few days after being vaccinated, a rate higher than most earlier estimates. (The risk was negligible in females of any age.)

That article also had some interesting discussion about reducing vaccination for young people because of myocarditis. Whether that's a wise decision or not really depends on how well the country in question has contained COVID.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#183

Post by djbebs »

nabla9 wrote: post #60
yes_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

It seems like if you take everything into account, taking the vaccine might not provide any benefit from men under 30. Any medical intervention must be beneficial to justify the use. If it's so and so, or equal risk, then it's not done. EDIT: The alternative is not stopping vaccinations. Men under 30 are given Pfizer.

It never did.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#184

Post by mythrwy »

Certhas wrote: post #165
noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

Anecdote. Fear mongering. Misleading statistic. Misleading/demonstrably wrong information presented with an air of "obviously". Conspiracy... What is eroding trust in vaccines are narratives like this. You pretend like every single point you raise (accelerated development, VAERS) doesn't have a clear explanation that is readily available with a single search. You pretend as if these "issues" you identify are swept un…

Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? How exactly did you determine this? (to be clear I'm not suggesting he did, only questioning your methods of determining truth).

"Back when it was plausible to get to herd immunity with 60% of adults vaccinated".

That was never possible with these series of vaccines which don't prevent transmission, don't give full protection, and don't last very long. It's frankly stunning to me someone would make such a statement at this point in time.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#185

Post by timothycrosley »

justsee wrote: post #179
timothycrosley wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we are sharing meaningless anecdotes, almost everyone I know (since I live in Seattle) has been vaccinated. No one has reported any issues, a couple have since successfully had a child. None have even gotten a breakthrough infection of covid. Among friends I know from back east, who haven't gotten vaccinated, one had just turned 30, only health issue was obesity. He died. One was 35, best shape of any of my fri…

It's not as settled as you seem to think. Leading vaccine developer Nikolai Petrovsky (who's working on a traditional, protein-based vaccine) recently mentioned in an interview that if he had a pregnant wife he'd advise her to avoid both the virus and the vaccine (something only the privileged could attempt, so not a one-size-fits-all recommendation) [1] (In a more technical interview aimed at a scientific audience,…

I personally think avoiding getting infected ever, just is so impractical as to not lay out as an option. As evidence more and more is showing both infected and vaccinated people are likely to spread the infection (even if they don't get symptoms) as soon as 3 months after the acquired "immunity". Combined with how infectious delta is, this third choice of never getting infected just feels disingenuous.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#186

Post by CRConrad »

yes_man wrote: post #22
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

> They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot.

No: Absolutely not worth it to take that particular shot, as there are others available which don't have that side effect.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#187

Post by tguvot »

leereeves wrote: post #144
tguvot wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet we think we got this mRNA/Adenovirus vector formula right on the first try times 3 different brands with 2 years of reduced trials? Actually mRNA vaccines/tech been in development and trials for a long time (decades). What was done in last year is to encode specific mRNA and trial it. Not the entire "envelope". Nice historical overview: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

That article says an mRNA vaccine for influenza was in clinical trials in 2015, but it never made it to market. What happened to it?

no idea. my guess is that flu mutates quickly and they couldn't figure out what to target exactly

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#188

Post by iratewizard »

timothycrosley wrote: post #180
pyronik19 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we even know the real number? VAERS is highly underreported and how many vaccine cases are just getting labeled as "covid cases"... I love the southpark skit about this "covid related"... worth a watch.

This is complete nonsense. If anything VAERS would be over-reported, the people who are most against vaccination, blast it so often I see it in my facebook feed more often than advertisements. Anyone can add to VAERS, and I'm sure with all the antivaxx advertisement of it, they DO. Not to mention that doctors are required to, and report even unrelated deaths that happen right after vaccination. Meanwhile the reportin…

Pure conjecture from someone riled up with fear and anger. Turn off your propaganda box.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#189

Post by megablast »

yabones wrote: post #75
orf wrote: post #27

~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…

The rate might be higher, but the cluster effect is completely different. If you're in traffic, the only people you can "spread" a car accident to are the other cars around you. But with infectious disease, you have a chance of spreading it to everybody you contact, all day every day. You can't sit near somebody on the bus who transmits car accidents to you. Nor can you get in a car accident because your child caught…

> If you're in traffic, the only people you can "spread" a car accident to are the other cars around you.

Or pedestrians or cyclists, or anyone that goes near a car. And since roads are everywhere, that is every single person.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#190

Post by phnofive »

CRConrad wrote: post #186
yes_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

> They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. No: Absolutely not worth it to take that particular shot, as there are others available which don't have that side effect.

Viral myocarditis is serious but not life threatening and self-resolves in less than a year; the vaccine-induced cases are even more mild than that.
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