Is it rational? The same concerns have been raised about the BioNTech vaccine, yet that is still perfectly in use.
Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
51–60 of 407 posts
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
2.7 per 100k [1] according to an Israeli study. Couldn’t find these details on the Scandinavian study. This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine — I wish this context with numbers were always printed in these cases. The non-scientifically trained public isn’t taught or should be expected to know how to contextualize these things. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full…
> This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine But the risk of getting COVID in any time period is less than 1 (based on % of population that has actually had it, possibly less than 0.1 or 10% per year), so it's worth waiting for the safest vaccine for certain groups.
It obviously depends on your lifestyle, which is also why it should never be mandated. I call this the risk coefficient – it's different for everyone.
Personally, I've effectively been self-isolating since January. Why should I get a shot now? Especially if it's going to wear off in 5 months?
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#53In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.
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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#54In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.
Vaccines have never been promoted as 100% safe nor 100% effective.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#55In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.
Here in Canada, we've had the mix-n-match push in June - a large Pfizer shipment was delayed and there was tons of Moderna, and entirely coincidentally at the very same time mix-n-match was approved, and the official line became "mRNA vaccines are 100% interchangeable. You get what you get. Vaccine shoppers are horrible ignorant people. The science on this is settled." With all the attendant media propaganda (is it s…
Germany has been (suddenly) mixing and matching since the AstraZeneca vaccine was found causing thrombosis issues. Consensus seems to be that it’s as good as 2 mRNA shots.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#56In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.
Still the mantra is to vaccinate even more!
Indeed, as the benefit obviously massively outweighs the risk.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I hate that, is it something real or are my chances lower than being bitten to death by a dog?
Why are people only focusing on numbers. There are tons of negative stuff with higher odds of happening to you but I don't want to risk myocarditis. I'd rather get bitten, unless it's a rabid dog.
Because people focus on the idea that the vaccine induced myocarditis is bad, while ignoring the rate of myocarditis from the condition the vaccine is there to prevent. But you're right, there's a whole spectrum of other problems.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#58~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
The risk profiles are different, since one is multiplicative and one is additive.
One car crash won't cause 100,000 car crashes, but an infectious disease can.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#59A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid?
For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated?
If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer.
But what's the actual risk?
When vaccinated, the risk is even lower! Yet people are still more afraid of Covid than myriad other risks we accept on a daily basis and don't even think about, and certainly don't rearrange our lives around. For whatever reason, we are avoiding a basic cost benefit analysis and vastly overestimate the risks.
"92% overstate the risk that unvaccinated people will be hospitalized, and 62% overstate the risk for vaccinated people"
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat...
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#60> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?
https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…
It seems like if you take everything into account, taking the vaccine might not provide any benefit from men under 30. Any medical intervention must be beneficial to justify the use. If it's so and so, or equal risk, then it's not done.
EDIT: The alternative is not stopping vaccinations. Men under 30 are given Pfizer.