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The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

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Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#181

Post by cmrdporcupine »

100011_100001 wrote: post #101
inglor_cz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a non-American who is right of centre, and I can see "my" people adapting cancel culture tactics as well, and I resent it. IMHO such victories are rotten to the core. "Shall there be two cities of Minas Morgul, grinning at each other across a dead land filled with rottenness?" The only thing I can do about it is to interact civilly with like-minded people of totally different political persuasions and hope that…

I live in the States but wasn't raised here. One of the things you might not know is that unless you live in a middle east or China, right of center is left in the States.

What has happened in western countries but most dramatically in North America is that "left" vs "right" has been transformed from a strong disagreement about management of the economy to a strong disagreement about how to manage the culture.

This is because in the US especially the "left" in the traditional socialist sense -- and its allies in the union movement and among students and academia -- have lost the class war. Since Clinton and Blair, there is no political space left for serious redistributive politics and the parties claiming the mantle of "left" or "social democratic" in the west have mostly given up. I'd say anti-capitalism remains strong among their base, but for all intents and purposes there is no path towards actually enacting policy... Which is why "Medicare for All" can be insanely popular in the United States across the population and voters of parties but still never ever become successful legislation.

And it's also why I find it so hilarious to see right wingers talk about the "MSM" and calling things like CNN "left wing"; all the bitching about "wokeness" and griping about culture wars and so on and complaining that somehow the "left" dominates society... It's amazing because in the context of what "left" meant for most of the 20th century... the left lost. It's gone. And I say this as a strong proponent of its classic positions.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#182

Post by brnt »

cm2187 wrote: post #82
wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

And the worst is kids. If you think you can go off track and say dumb things as an adult, think of the 14yo self. I thank God I was a teenager before the modern internet. There is no forgiveness. The doors of college education can be shut on a whim for a bad joke. Where and when I grew up, your political opinion was irrelevant to your college admission. You didn't have to demonstrate your committment to the polical c…

I grew up with internet, and had to deal with cyberbullies long before most knew what internet was. I think my inclination to clean up after myself and natural aversion for exposing too many personal details (I.e. didn't sign up for any social media, nor any (local) precursors) helped me steer clear of the worst of this. I'm surprised that so many are so blasé about this, while it's raining stories of cyberbullying, measurable increases in youth depression and lonelyness, identity theft and then regular theft.

I wear a seatbelt, a mask, and I take care of myself online as well. Seems like the facts are clear on all of those.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#183

Post by wonderwonder »

wussboy wrote: post #19
wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

This is one of the primary reasons I stay off of social media. There is not forgetting, no opportunity to learn and grow and change and develop.

I just maintain an anonymous one and never comment. Lets me follow whatever topics I care about and no worries about anything coming back to bite me. I make sure to try and include people I disagree with as well to a certain extent as its a good way to see other points of view and also to reinforce why I disagree with them in the first place. Lets me know I am not in an echo chamber and at least 51% of my opinions are probably my own... maybe.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#184

Post by coldtea »

InitialLastName wrote: post #177
coldtea wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that was the case for most of history, and America (and the world) at the time did it progressively less and less (first the abolition of slavery, then women right to vote, civil rights, de-seggregation, and so on). Whereas today it's a new phenomenon, that gets progressively worse even though the problems you've mentioned (regarding blacks, women, gays, etc) are at their historical lower point. So while Ame…

> (even someone like Dave Chappelle, who is a comedian of all things, has been attacked on such grounds). Dave Chappelle, with his recent $8-figure deal with a prominent pop-culture/FAANG company, who keep publishing and promoting his specials, seems like he's actually a counter-argument to your point.

Not for lack of trying.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#185

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #71
klyrs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is no comparison to a small population being affected to potentially anyone and everyone being a potential subject. If I may paraphrase... there's no comparison between oppressing a minority I don't belong to, and the entire population being subjected to the same risk.

It doesn't matter how you put it. If you say "tax the rich 95%." That's bad. "Tax everyone 95%" That's really bad. I don't understand how you cannot see that. The fewer people affected by something, the less evil it is even if it's evil. I mean, what are you saying, H-wood blacklisting was bad, therefore what we see in social media ostracizing is acceptable? That seems... strange. Of course not all sympathizers of co…

[deleted]

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#186

Post by setr »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #132
spectramax wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a distraction and diversion from the original comment. Hollywood is not at the scale of the internet. Some privileged people got cancelled in Hollywood, who cares. When a hard working person gets cancelled by saying something stupid, the consequences are back breaking.

While I agree that ordinary people being cancelled for saying something stupid is a bad thing that should be condemned[0], I'll play devil's advocate: however unfair these events may be, are they truly statistically significant? Or is concern about "cancellation" of hard working people itself a moral panic amplified by the nature of modern media? Sure, we've all heard of donglegate, or about that guy whose hand did a…

I don't think it matters whether its that statistically significant. You can increase expected-value by increasing likelihood of occurrence, or increase the value of the outcome.

Take a loan shark, for example. You don't need to take a leg every time a loan is late. You just need to do it to enough of them, visibly enough, that everyone gets the message -- you can miss a payment, and maybe get away with it... but you also might get seriously fucked up.

And suddenly, no one's missing payments. Because the % chance of failure might be low, but the damage done is dramatically high (potentially infinite, if you escalate from taking legs to taking heads) -- giving you a very a high expected-value.

You only need to expel a few people from society for espousing wrong-think, to get most people to fear speaking wrong (accidentally, or intentionally). And it's perfectly rational.

Regarding terrorism, it's the same thing. You don't need to have that many terrorist events for it to be rational to defend heavily against them -- if they do enough damage (e.g. 9/11), they've made up for their rarity. The problem with defense-against-terrorism is that it's used to justify things that have nothing to do with it, or very weakly related (eg invasion of countries, elimination of security protocols, invasions of privacy, etc) and is used as a scapegoat for all sorts of nefarious activity.

The part that's irrational is not the fear of terrorists, but rather the mindless interpretation of anything that claims to help resolve that fear.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#187

Post by nebula8804 »

a_conservative wrote: post #178
nebula8804 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I simply meant that my experience is that those on the right don't deploy ridicule as much when dissent is expressed. They probably have the benefit of keeping their thoughts to themselves more often. These conservatives tend to live in rural areas where there is more likely to be people like themselves. It makes it easier to not have to express their views. Of course people like Trump have make the extremists of th…

Thank you for the post. I can hear the frustration in your writing. Or perhaps, it's my own frustration that I'm projecting on to you. More and more, I'm wondering about the proposition that the "left vs right" battle we (broadly) tend to engage in is just a bunch of bullshit that we get caught up in. If there are puppet masters in the world, they surely are happy when we fight amongst ourselves.

>If there are puppet masters in the world, they surely are happy when we fight amongst ourselves.

History has shown this to be true.

I think the biggest problem is that a generation of both left and right wingers have not been taught proper civics and history of how this country has and continues to operate.

Some of the left is rediscovering this history now and is fighting the right who either already know the history and seem to want to keep remnants of it (probably not a majority) and the other half that has not experienced how others live in this country.

I wish you would have actually addressed any of my points. It seems like it is a waste of time to spend the time to type these things out.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#188

Post by Minor49er »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #167
Minor49er wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To identify their gender. Like the differences between waiter/waitress, masseur/masseuse, actor/actress, and countless of other examples.

>To identify their gender. The purpose of my question was to lead to the inevitable question of what the purpose of identifying a senator's gender was, at least in the context of the comment I was replying to. >Like the differences between waiter/waitress, masseur/masseuse, actor/actress, and countless of other examples. I would ask the same question for those, but at least those might be used simply because they are…

>The purpose of my question was to lead to the inevitable question of what the purpose of identifying a senator's gender was, at least in the context of the comment I was replying to.

Gender is a large part of one's identity

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#189

Post by [deleted] »

Minor49er wrote: post #188
lotsofpulp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To identify their gender. The purpose of my question was to lead to the inevitable question of what the purpose of identifying a senator's gender was, at least in the context of the comment I was replying to. >Like the differences between waiter/waitress, masseur/masseuse, actor/actress, and countless of other examples. I would ask the same question for those, but at least those might be used simply because they are…

>The purpose of my question was to lead to the inevitable question of what the purpose of identifying a senator's gender was, at least in the context of the comment I was replying to. Gender is a large part of one's identity

[deleted]

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#190

Post by legostormtroopr »

tstrimple wrote: post #144
wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

> People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Except it was only ever "just a joke" for the perpetrators. What we're seeing more of now is the voice of the previously unheard and ignored, and it turns out they don't like being the butt of racist or sexist or bigoted "jokes". This is the same energy as dismissing sexual harassment as "boys will be boys…

Thank you for proving the parent comments point.

He said "People used to make tasteless jokes all the time" and you equated it to "why can't we physically assault girls anymore".

There are shades of gray to all huuman interaction, and thanks to behaviour like yours where people jump to prove they are good, anything can be considered "bad".

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