The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#51

Post by foolfoolz » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #32

Goronmon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the line though? Are we never allow to criticize someone for their opinions or "jokes", regardless of content or context? It's easy to just state "People should be able to make jokes or have a bad day." and while maybe that's true, I don't think we should be able to brush off all behavior by just labeling it a "bad day".

Sure we are allowed to criticize someone and if that person has voluntarily posted their content then that person opens themselves up. So much of what happens now is someone filmed without their consent and that video is then posted to social media and the person is doomed. Think of your worst moment and then imagine it was filmed and posted to social media where 100k other people shared it. Very hard to recover from…

it’s unfair that what used to be a passing mistake has turned into the permanent record of your failures. and i think this is much worse for kids than adults

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#52

Post by imgabe » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #45

imgabe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and in that time people having the opinion that black people should be free would have been considered to have “wrong” and “dangerous” opinions that would cause great damage to society. Would we be better off today if those in power then had been able to silence unpopular opinions?

We are best off when we acknowledge that "opinions" can and do deal deadly harm every day, and not avoiding that point when it is explicitly made.

Yes, the opinion that we need to demand the firing of people we disagree with does indeed impoverish them.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#53

Post by inglor_cz » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

100011_100001 wrote: post #9

Melting_Harps wrote: post #6

Was social media ever really anything but an echo chamber that sought to recreate the mob mentality of collective lynching for dissenting voices? I mean cancel culture and wokeness have made it clear that seems like the means and methods to create (coerced) consensus amongst an incredibly vocal minority. I'm less troubled with conformity, many Societies throughout the World have made that a part of the Social Contrac…

You make it sound like this only happens on the democratic side. Republicans have similar echo chambers. I think conformity happens within circles. Then it's a question how big the circle is. I agree with your main concern though, online vs real life credit systems.

I am a non-American who is right of centre, and I can see "my" people adapting cancel culture tactics as well, and I resent it. IMHO such victories are rotten to the core.

"Shall there be two cities of Minas Morgul, grinning at each other across a dead land filled with rottenness?"

The only thing I can do about it is to interact civilly with like-minded people of totally different political persuasions and hope that others will be inspired not to enter the cesspool.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#54

Post by woodruffw » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

caeril wrote: post #12

Pretty rich, coming out of an organization that assaulted and chased Vincent Canfield out of CCC for . . . . owning trollish domain names. I'm sure the presenter doesn't necessarily share the Congress's values, but it's funny nonetheless.

> Pretty rich, coming out of an organization that assaulted and chased Vincent Canfield out of CCC for . . . . owning trollish domain names.

Are you sure it wasn't him being an open and virulent racist[1]?

Edit: I should say that I have the dubious distinction of actually haven spoken to vc for several years on IRC. He might have started as a troll, but he's failed in the way that every bad troll fails: by getting high on his own supply.

[1]: https://twitter.com/gexcolo

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#55

Post by shadowgovt » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #41

InitialLastName wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Publicly espousing an unpopular opinion now can be career suicide Let's not pretend this is new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist The difference now is that visibility is more uniformly distributed across the population.

No normal person will deny this. But there is no comparison to a small population being affected (ironically in the USSR, lots of artists and authors got not only blacklisted but sent to the Gulags --gee, I wonder if they wrote to Stalin on behalf of their brethren) to potentially anyone and everyone being a potential subject at any moment for something otherwise innocuous. What’s more this is much worse. It’s not ab…

Modern bidirectional communications tools make it easy to wide-cast a message and then have that message responded to by potentially millions of receivers.

I think we don't respect the power we wield often enough. That's a terrible capability to provide via a system that also encourages you to blurt something out in 280 characters or less. Every single tweet is a shout from a mountaintop (and since it's time-stamped and on the timeline forever, that shout echoes perpetually).

Additionally, that infrastructure incentivizes gravitation towards some flat-mass-"centroid" of acceptable cultural practice, and there's no particular guarantee that such a thing across the bulk of humanity is either possible or desirable.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#56

Post by BobbyJo » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

InitialLastName wrote: post #18

wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

> Publicly espousing an unpopular opinion now can be career suicide Let's not pretend this is new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist The difference now is that visibility is more uniformly distributed across the population.

> The difference now is that visibility is more uniformly distributed across the population.

And that you don't necessarily have to chase said visibility. Before, visibility was a goal very few people could attain. Now it's a bomb that can be thrown at you without warning.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#57

Post by greesil » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #48

germinalphrase wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making show dead the default would be a nice step.

After setting "show dead" to "on", I am rarely more enlightened than before. It seems that HN moderators are an order of magnitude better at their jobs than average and recognize value or its absence fairly well.

Seconded. The dead posts are always uninformative and/or toxic.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#58

Post by aogaili » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

Mixing and inventing words for existing well-known concepts add more confusion to an already confusing space, but it surely helps the author to give new TED talks.

Beside, the tech amplify what is a human nature, humans manage and keep track of each other reputation since the dawn of humanity. The outliers will always face resistance and some will find a new way.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#59

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

wussboy wrote: post #19

wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

This is one of the primary reasons I stay off of social media. There is not forgetting, no opportunity to learn and grow and change and develop.

I feel like this is obvious with a major caveat.

You and I agree. Don’t use social media and this won’t be a problem. I think the disadvantages outweigh.

But… what about when Hackernews or Reddit or Discord whatever formerly anonymous some-degree-of-social-network is made not so anonymous? I have a Reddit account that I’ve surely said things if someone was motivated they could make life hard for me - true things - but who cares about that anymore?

It’s not the same thing, but we might not be sure in what ways they are similar.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#60

Post by germinalphrase » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #48

germinalphrase wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making show dead the default would be a nice step.

After setting "show dead" to "on", I am rarely more enlightened than before. It seems that HN moderators are an order of magnitude better at their jobs than average and recognize value or its absence fairly well.

I agree, generally; however, I still find it (sometimes) useful to hear strong outsider views, even if only to see what patterns of thinking are propagating.

The mods here are solid.